12' Gecko Build

El Toro said:
Subscribed. Thanks for putting so much time and effort into your build thread. I learned quite a bit from your experiences.

I'm on a similar path albeit a few years behind. Saving up for the trail leader package next year since I'm still in a D30, unlocked, and 3.21 gears...uggg

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For sure, I have learned a ton by other people on this site so it's the least I can do to pay it forward. If you have any questions hit me up.

And I feel ya on the 3.21s even on just 33s the 3.21s drove me nuts. I will say that 5.13s would be a better fit for the 37s if you off road a good amount but I was nervous putting that small of a pinion in the D44s so I went with 4.88s and it works out pretty well. I also have a Rubi t-case so that helps out with the low range

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So now that's it's not -20 out and I have saved up a bit of money this winter I think it's time to address some of my steering woes.

I don't have any bump steer or death wobble or what in my mind seems like flighty steering but it still just doesn't feel right. Hard to explain but it just feels like I'm constantly sawing back and forth through a little bit of a dead zone to make small inputs to keep it straight and from time to time it seems like the corrections tend to dart to one direction or the other. It's quite possible that I'm just used to driving my truck so much that I forgot what it's like to drive a Jeep haha.

Anyway from what I remember of my axle swap and 37s is I am at 7* caster 3* driveshaft angle. Toe is 1/8" toed in. According to shock measurement at ride height I'm at 3.25" of lift. Stock Track bar is in stock mounting location and I do not have a drag link flip.

It seems slightly odd to me that the front axle is centered, or at least withing 1/2" of center in the stock location on 3.25" of lift. I have a feeling toe may have something to do with what I'm feeling so I want to check that for sure.

I have been throwing around the idea of a drag link flip and a PSC big bore for some sector shaft peace of mind. I honestly didn't consider hydro when I did the axle sawp because I had to cut off the ram bracket without a drag link flip when I was on 33s but now I guess I could weld on some new tabs and go that route too. I just don't quite know in what direction I should go with all this. If I do a drag link flip I want it to be one that won't bend if I go with a big bore. But if I flip the DL I have clearance to do hydro so maybe I wouldn't even need the big bore.

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My axle was about 3/4" off center, so not necessarily odd. I ended up getting an adjustable track bar because I was rubbing the frame at full droop.

Can't speak to your caster because of the ProRock, just make sure everything's torqued. May also be tire pressure?

I just found the preload was off on my ball joints and that was causing a steering issue for me, but I'm sure that isn't an issue for your setup.

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Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
 
BaddestCross said:
My axle was about 3/4" off center, so not necessarily odd. I ended up getting an adjustable track bar because I was rubbing the frame at full droop.

Can't speak to your caster because of the ProRock, just make sure everything's torqued. May also be tire pressure?

I just found the preload was off on my ball joints and that was causing a steering issue for me, but I'm sure that isn't an issue for your setup.

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Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
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I guess I mean it seems odd that it's not off by more. Its surprisingly center for all the work I did. So I wonder if I do the DL flip and raise it if it will be more off center than it is now.

It's not a bad idea to go through and re check every bolt on the front considering how much I had it all tore apart.

You did the redneck ram right? Did you do a DL flip and the hydro at the same time or did you notice any difference with the DL flip before hydro? I remember it making a massive difference in my last Jeep but quite a different front end set up. I just wonder if I measure and adjust again everything up front and flip the drag link if I'll be a bit more happy with the way it steers and I don't need to do big bore or hydro considering so far with this rig I haven't done anything I feel like I wish I had either other than my 1 Moab trip.

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desertrunner said:
I guess I mean it seems odd that it's not off by more. Its surprisingly center for all the work I did. So I wonder if I do the DL flip and raise it if it will be more off center than it is now.

It's not a bad idea to go through and re check every bolt on the front considering how much I had it all tore apart.

You did the redneck ram right? Did you do a DL flip and the hydro at the same time or did you notice any difference with the DL flip before hydro? I remember it making a massive difference in my last Jeep but quite a different front end set up. I just wonder if I measure and adjust again everything up front and flip the drag link if I'll be a bit more happy with the way it steers and I don't need to do big bore or hydro considering so far with this rig I haven't done anything I feel like I wish I had either other than my 1 Moab trip.

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I didn't do the flip. I made the ram fit with some creativity and a grinder. 😂

I'm happy with the way she handles, so I didn't want to flip it and open up another can of clearance worms.

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Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
 
BaddestCross said:
I didn't do the flip. I made the ram fit with some creativity and a grinder. 😂

I'm happy with the way she handles, so I didn't want to flip it and open up another can of clearance worms.

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Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
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Humm interesting I'll have to go look at pics of your set up. When I cut the original ram bracket off my drag link would slide right into the middle of the 2 tabs on a left turn so it had to go haha.

Yeah I cant quite figure out why I'm liking the way it's handling right now so I need to start tinkering

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desertrunner said:
Humm interesting I'll have to go look at pics of your set up. When I cut the original ram bracket off my drag link would slide right into the middle of the 2 tabs on a left turn so it had to go haha.

Yeah I cant quite figure out why I'm liking the way it's handling right now so I need to start tinkering

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Lol. I couldn't understand why mine drove well either. I was contemplating doing more to see if it could be "better" but I'm afraid to fuck something up. 😂

I think my build thread has some photos but if you want more, let me know and I'll shoot some for you.

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Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
 
BaddestCross said:
Lol. I couldn't understand why mine drove well either. I was contemplating doing more to see if it could be "better" but I'm afraid to fuck something up. 😂

I think my build thread has some photos but if you want more, let me know and I'll shoot some for you.

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Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
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Can't argue with not wanting to mess it up haha
Yeah I looked at your build thread for the pics, mine is just gonna different with the PR brackets up front.
Looking at the rest of my set up I don't think I'll have any clearance issues with a flip because I already have the raised track bar bracket part of the PR44 and it's all set up around clearing that. So if I don't like the way it drives and I won't have clearance issues I feel like I might as well flip it. Then I go down the rabbit hole of just a cheap RHD one that would bend if I do a big bore and not mess with hydro or then with the DL out of the way I could do hydro. Idk doing a flip seems like a good place for me to start

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desertrunner said:
Can't argue with not wanting to mess it up haha
Yeah I looked at your build thread for the pics, mine is just gonna different with the PR brackets up front.
Looking at the rest of my set up I don't think I'll have any clearance issues with a flip because I already have the raised track bar bracket part of the PR44 and it's all set up around clearing that. So if I don't like the way it drives and I won't have clearance issues I feel like I might as well flip it. Then I go down the rabbit hole of just a cheap RHD one that would bend if I do a big bore and not mess with hydro or then with the DL out of the way I could do hydro. Idk doing a flip seems like a good place for me to start

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I was more concerned about the possibility of hitting the frame with a raised track bar. I don't want to add more bump stop.

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Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
 
desertrunner said:
So now that's it's not -20 out and I have saved up a bit of money this winter I think it's time to address some of my steering woes.

I don't have any bump steer or death wobble or what in my mind seems like flighty steering but it still just doesn't feel right. Hard to explain but it just feels like I'm constantly sawing back and forth through a little bit of a dead zone to make small inputs to keep it straight and from time to time it seems like the corrections tend to dart to one direction or the other. It's quite possible that I'm just used to driving my truck so much that I forgot what it's like to drive a Jeep haha.

Anyway from what I remember of my axle swap and 37s is I am at 7* caster 3* driveshaft angle. Toe is 1/8" toed in. According to shock measurement at ride height I'm at 3.25" of lift. Stock Track bar is in stock mounting location and I do not have a drag link flip.

It seems slightly odd to me that the front axle is centered, or at least withing 1/2" of center in the stock location on 3.25" of lift. I have a feeling toe may have something to do with what I'm feeling so I want to check that for sure.

I have been throwing around the idea of a drag link flip and a PSC big bore for some sector shaft peace of mind. I honestly didn't consider hydro when I did the axle sawp because I had to cut off the ram bracket without a drag link flip when I was on 33s but now I guess I could weld on some new tabs and go that route too. I just don't quite know in what direction I should go with all this. If I do a drag link flip I want it to be one that won't bend if I go with a big bore. But if I flip the DL I have clearance to do hydro so maybe I wouldn't even need the big bore.

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Your caster is a bit on the high side. In my opinion the drag link flip will help the handling mostly because you can then raise the track bar. Raising the track bar effects roll center and will help handling and steering quite a bit. I didn’t go through your whole build thread but I am assuming you have adjustable arms. With the the pr44 you have caster built in so factory length on the control arms should be pretty darn close to perfect at that ride height. With 37’s you could run the big bore box and forget hydro. IMO hydro will add more handling problems. Save your old box though. If you ever go LS you’ll need it. The big bore doesn’t fit and you can send the old one in to get set up right for hydro assist.


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A.J. said:
Your caster is a bit on the high side. In my opinion the drag link flip will help the handling mostly because you can then raise the track bar. Raising the track bar effects roll center and will help handling and steering quite a bit. I didn’t go through your whole build thread but I am assuming you have adjustable arms. With the the pr44 you have caster built in so factory length on the control arms should be pretty darn close to perfect at that ride height. With 37’s you could run the big bore box and forget hydro. IMO hydro will add more handling problems. Save your old box though. If you ever go LS you’ll need it. The big bore doesn’t fit and you can send the old one in to get set up right for hydro assist.


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The dynatrac instructions do say to set the caster between 6-8* and I went through a ton of adjusting for my driveshafts when I was having some vibe issues so I'm pretty confident my measurements are right and it's right in the middle of the recommended so I can't imagine too much caster would cause and issue.

I do agree with you getting my track bar raised and flip the drag link should help steering and handling and I think that's where I'm gonna start. Just gotta pick which DL I want based on future potential upgrades. A crown RHD DL is cheap and a synergy sleeve is $10 I could do it for well less than $100 but if I go big bore box I'll need a better DL than that. #firstworldproblems haha

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I put the flipped Synergy DL on my PR44 and it handles better than before. I only drove it for a little while with the PR44 and stock drag link and it wasn't bad, but I was having clearance issues. It's not night and day difference, but it was noticeable. It might be just the little bit of difference you're looking for :yup:
 
Haha well new update with my steering I figured I might as well go check and as my suspicions confirmed, I had my wife turn the steering wheel back and forth and I have lateral and vertical play in both ends of my drag link.
Time for a new one for sure and I think I'll flip it while I'm at it.

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desertrunner said:
Haha well new update with my steering I figured I might as well go check and as my suspicions confirmed, I had my wife turn the steering wheel back and forth and I have lateral and vertical play in both ends of my drag link.
Time for a new one for sure and I think I'll flip it while I'm at it.

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Call bubba, he told me yesterday 4 weeks for getting a drag link, and the price is outstanding


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desertrunner said:
Haha well new update with my steering I figured I might as well go check and as my suspicions confirmed, I had my wife turn the steering wheel back and forth and I have lateral and vertical play in both ends of my drag link.
Time for a new one for sure and I think I'll flip it while I'm at it.

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Lol. That'd probably do it.

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Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
 
Just noticed I mangled the heck out of my passenger side rear hard brake line.
Should I be mounting the sway bar links inside instead of outside?
Maybe I'll have to re route the hard line, luckily it doesn't look like it's leaking hopefully I can bend it back without too much trouble.

20190512_201255.jpg

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