Anyone self quarantined? AKA - the 2020 SH!T SHOW

[fiend]

I don't think taking a risk and working really hard at it guarantees you become one of the have's. I think you need an exceptional idea and a ton of luck as well. Then there is seed money to start a company around your big idea. A burger flipper could find the cure for cancer and I guarantee you he wouldn't get the attention or seed money he'd need to see it to fruition. And honestly the pharma companies would probably put a hit out on him but that's another discussion... I also think a lot of people out there could have their own $10M dollar ideas and they just don't have the type A personality it takes to drive that home. I have a lot of respect for the operations Bezos and Musk have built but they certainly weren't poor when they kicked off their first companies and I guarantee you their initial wealth helped start those operations and probably gave them a little more confidence to take that risk... A good friend of mine has over 20 medical device patents, that are owned by his employer. They're all in production. The company paid him $1000 dollars for each patent received, no royalties, thank you for playing. He's always talked about starting his own med company but the risks were too high and seed money isn't there for have nots. Hell, I'm pretty sure now universities have started stealing their students IP and monetizing it...

That same company killed the bonus and raises during the 2008+ recession. I think it was 2011 before I saw a bonus or raise again. But the C-suite got $70M+ a year in raises, bonuses, and stock from 08-11.

I also think wage stagnation and pretty shitty corporate culture/employee/HR practices have rubbed much of the working class the wrong way. And cut off the liquidity they may need to really extend and better themselves... But that's another beef I've got with unmitigated capitalism/corporate america in particular I guess. When the talking head/ceo makes 5000x the lowest paid employee that just doesn't seem right to me (I'm by far not that lowest paid employee btw). I guess my comment here is I think work place apathy and lack of drive is probably more driven by the decoupling of wages from the value the employee adds (and watching those wages get pushed up to the C-Suite instead).

I have no solutions here. Just pointing out what I've seen. Cheers!

^Couldn't agree more for culture in general.

Peter Gibbons : "It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? "

You guys are starting to sound like communists. [emoji23]


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[Primo82]

^Couldn't agree more for culture in general.

Peter Gibbons : "It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? "

ROFL, Office Space is one of my top 10 movies. But some days I cannot determine if it's a dark comedy or a dramatized reenactment!

 

[Primo82]

You guys are starting to sound like communists. [emoji23]


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LOL, it depends. If someone else is leading I'm good with democracy, parliamentary government, or a republic. Let the people have a voice.

If I'm leading the show it'll be despotism all the way! BTW don't elect me...

 

[jdofmemi]

I don't think taking a risk and working really hard at it guarantees you become one of the have's. I think you need an exceptional idea and a ton of luck as well. Then there is seed money to start a company around your big idea. A burger flipper could find the cure for cancer and I guarantee you he wouldn't get the attention or seed money he'd need to see it to fruition. And honestly the pharma companies would probably put a hit out on him but that's another discussion... I also think a lot of people out there could have their own $10M dollar ideas and they just don't have the type A personality it takes to drive that home. I have a lot of respect for the operations Bezos and Musk have built but they certainly weren't poor when they kicked off their first companies and I guarantee you their initial wealth helped start those operations and probably gave them a little more confidence to take that risk... A good friend of mine has over 20 medical device patents, that are owned by his employer. They're all in production. The company paid him $1000 dollars for each patent received, no royalties, thank you for playing. He's always talked about starting his own med company but the risks were too high and seed money isn't there for have nots. Hell, I'm pretty sure now universities have started stealing their students IP and monetizing it...

That same company killed the bonus and raises during the 2008+ recession. I think it was 2011 before I saw a bonus or raise again. But the C-suite got $70M+ a year in raises, bonuses, and stock from 08-11.

I also think wage stagnation and pretty shitty corporate culture/employee/HR practices have rubbed much of the working class the wrong way. And cut off the liquidity they may need to really extend and better themselves... But that's another beef I've got with unmitigated capitalism/corporate america in particular I guess. When the talking head/ceo makes 5000x the lowest paid employee that just doesn't seem right to me (I'm by far not that lowest paid employee btw). I guess my comment here is I think work place apathy and lack of drive is probably more driven by the decoupling of wages from the value the employee adds (and watching those wages get pushed up to the C-Suite instead).

I have no solutions here. Just pointing out what I've seen. Cheers!

The hard work and taking a risk may give you a shot at it, but a whole lot still relies on luck. A little bit of good luck can push you over the top, but a little bit of bad luck or timing can torpedo your best efforts in a hurry.

If you are well funded, you may be able to weather a few doses of bad luck, but if self funded and working on a shoestring, one little hit can take you out and send you back to the poorhouse in a hurry.

If the establishment sees your up and coming idea as a threat, a few backroom deals is all it takes for you to suddenly receive a dose of bad luck.

I speak from experience, and three different times I have been at the cusp of success, only to be kicked back down to very nearly zero. Not one to give up, I'm still trying, but the motivation to work as hard as in the past is harder to come by as time and hard knocks pile up.

The more rules and regulations there are in effect for any given business, the more it favors the established companies, and up beers the new ones.

The current party in power is heavily in favor of more regulations, which is detrimental to the growth of small business, in my opinion and experience.

 

[J&k_Overland]

The hard work and taking a risk may give you a shot at it, but a whole lot still relies on luck. A little bit of good luck can push you over the top, but a little bit of bad luck or timing can torpedo your best efforts in a hurry.

If you are well funded, you may be able to weather a few doses of bad luck, but if self funded and working on a shoestring, one little hit can take you out and send you back to the poorhouse in a hurry.

If the establishment sees your up and coming idea as a threat, a few backroom deals is all it takes for you to suddenly receive a dose of bad luck.

I speak from experience, and three different times I have been at the cusp of success, only to be kicked back down to very nearly zero. Not one to give up, I'm still trying, but the motivation to work as hard as in the past is harder to come by as time and hard knocks pile up.

The more rules and regulations there are in effect for any given business, the more it favors the established companies, and up beers the new ones.

The current party in power is heavily in favor of more regulations, which is detrimental to the growth of small business, in my opinion and experience.

Yep regulation is what’s gonna put my lil business under. CARB in California has cost me over a 250k in the last few years alone then the feds with their new regulations added into that. I don’t see it getting any better any time soon.


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[Kuboske]

Yep regulation is what’s gonna put my lil business under. CARB in California has cost me over a 250k in the last few years alone then the feds with their new regulations added into that. I don’t see it getting any better any time soon.


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Yes. My 3406E, is not even legal to enter California. Not that I would, anyway.
Plus, the no-idle laws. I miss trucking when it was fun.
'81 W900A, KTA 600, 6+4.

 

[Sharkey]

^Couldn't agree more for culture in general.

Peter Gibbons : "It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? "

The motivation is to take some risk and not work for Initech, to learn a new skill, and/or invest in your own education. The fallacy, in your example, is that the only choice for Peter is to work harder or not for Initech.

It’s always easy to point fingers at management or “the company”, but the reality is that the rank and file employees are not the ones who are risking capital, and they aren’t the ones who get sued when shit goes south.

I do appreciate your points above and agree that they apply to the ultra-millionaires, but perhaps I define what it means to be part of the have’s a bit differently than you. Unless you are really bad with money, or living in NYC or SF, or have more than 3 kids, $200K a year is a pretty damn good living.

We all have a choice about where we live, what we do, and how we spend our money. Ultimately, the individual is who has the power (and the responsibility) to change their life circumstances.




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[wjtstudios]

My clients, for the most part, are all “ultra millionaires”. Almost all of them are first generation millionaires or billionaires. My most wealthy client put himself through Stanford living in the back of his car for two years. I’ve learned a tremendous about from these guys hearing them tell stories of how their backs were against the ropes and the only thing that got them through it was shear perseverance. The tenacity these men have is insane. That drive to work harder than anyone else around them and to do the things that no one else could do or dream of is how these guys have created what they have done. Has luck played a part in it, sure, but in all cases with these guys, if circumstances didn’t go the way they want, they find a way to change the circumstances. It has nothing to do with money or education. It’s all drive. Most of these guys were not Harvard grads, and a couple of them never went to college. They fought tooth and nail to create a better life themselves.

For the most part, that’s were I see the greatest loss in this country. People are complacent and content to take what is given to them. This country was created by people that were fed up with their lives in Europe and risked it all, literally, to come here and create a better life for themselves and their families.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler

 

[Sharkey]

My clients, for the most part, are all “ultra millionaires”. Almost all of them are first generation millionaires or billionaires. My most wealthy client put himself through Stanford living in the back of his car for two years. I’ve learned a tremendous about from these guys hearing them tell stories of how their backs were against the ropes and the only thing that got them through it was shear perseverance. The tenacity these men have is insane. That drive to work harder than anyone else around them and to do the things that no one else could do or dream of is how these guys have created what they have done. Has luck played a part in it, sure, but in all cases with these guys, if circumstances didn’t go the way they want, they find a way to change the circumstances. It has nothing to do with money or education. It’s all drive. Most of these guys were not Harvard grads, and a couple of them never went to college. They fought tooth and nail to create a better life themselves.

For the most part, that’s were I see the greatest loss in this country. People are complacent and content to take what is given to them. This country was created by people that were fed up with their lives in Europe and risked it all, literally, to come here and create a better life for themselves and their families.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler

Bingo!

But you don’t have to have that kind of money to have a great life and be part of what I consider to be the have’s.

I know hard working framers, with no education and no ownership in the company, making $100K+ per year. Hell, I know fire fighters making $200K a year and retiring with unbelievable benefits at 40 years old.

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[jesse3638]

From my perspective, what does seem to be exponentially changing in our country, is that the vast majority of the have not's are, frankly, unwilling to do the things necessary to try to become part of the "have's". Far too many people are lazy, complacent, lack personal responsibility, and just want to go through life as babies nestled in the comforting blanket of government subsidy and "safety". So whose fault is that, the have's...or the have not's?

^^^This^^^
I see it all the time. People wanting to work less yet get more. Trump nailed it when he was discussing covid unemployment. People were receiving more on unemployment than they were when employed. Where is the motivation to go back to work? I grew up a have-not, I was determined to be successful. As I've gotten older I've realized you can be a have-not and be content and you can be a have and be miserable. Its all in what you value. I have friends in the construction industry. They lost everything during the recession. They had no other option but to go get food stamps. They did not want money so to survive they traveled to AZ and NV chasing work. As soon as they were on their feet they got rid of food stamps. Not many people will do this.

The motivation is to take some risk and not work for Initech, to learn a new skill, and/or invest in your own education. The fallacy, in your example, is that the only choice for Peter is to work harder or not for Initech.

It’s always easy to point fingers at management or “the company”, but the reality is that the rank and file employees are not the ones who are risking capital, and they aren’t the ones who get sued when shit goes south.

I do appreciate your points above and agree that they apply to the ultra-millionaires, but perhaps I define what it means to be part of the have’s a bit differently than you. Unless you are really bad with money, or living in NYC or SF, or have more than 3 kids, $200K a year is a pretty damn good living.

We all have a choice about where we live, what we do, and how we spend our money. Ultimately, the individual is who has the power (and the responsibility) to change their life circumstances.

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I make less than 200k and consider myself a have. I live far better than I did growing up.

My clients, for the most part, are all “ultra millionaires”. Almost all of them are first generation millionaires or billionaires. My most wealthy client put himself through Stanford living in the back of his car for two years. I’ve learned a tremendous about from these guys hearing them tell stories of how their backs were against the ropes and the only thing that got them through it was shear perseverance. The tenacity these men have is insane. That drive to work harder than anyone else around them and to do the things that no one else could do or dream of is how these guys have created what they have done. Has luck played a part in it, sure, but in all cases with these guys, if circumstances didn’t go the way they want, they find a way to change the circumstances. It has nothing to do with money or education. It’s all drive. Most of these guys were not Harvard grads, and a couple of them never went to college. They fought tooth and nail to create a better life themselves.

For the most part, that’s were I see the greatest loss in this country. People are complacent and content to take what is given to them. This country was created by people that were fed up with their lives in Europe and risked it all, literally, to come here and create a better life for themselves and their families.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler

This is all possible for those who want to work hard. I think we may even know one. Very humble individual, but is not afraid to enjoy the fruits of his labors. Having met in person you wouldn't even know.

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[WJCO]

The motivation is to take some risk and not work for Initech, to learn a new skill, and/or invest in your own education. The fallacy, in your example, is that the only choice for Peter is to work harder or not for Initech.

It’s always easy to point fingers at management or “the company”, but the reality is that the rank and file employees are not the ones who are risking capital, and they aren’t the ones who get sued when shit goes south.

I do appreciate your points above and agree that they apply to the ultra-millionaires, but perhaps I define what it means to be part of the have’s a bit differently than you. Unless you are really bad with money, or living in NYC or SF, or have more than 3 kids, $200K a year is a pretty damn good living.

We all have a choice about where we live, what we do, and how we spend our money. Ultimately, the individual is who has the power (and the responsibility) to change their life circumstances.




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Oh, i do agree with you. I was Peter Gibbons at one time. Working in that type of environment was what drove me to start by own business. One of the best decisions I've ever made. And it certainly involved risk but in the end, it was well worth it IMO.

 

[Masjkf84]

I had a cube... then they sent us home near a year ago. Still no eta on when we will be back in the office. Getting used to this working from home though.

 

[wjtstudios]

Bingo!

But you don’t have to have that kind of money to have a great life and be part of what I consider to be the have’s.

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Agreed, exactly the opposite is true. The stress these guys are under is not worth the money they have. It’s the curse of success. Some of their families have been broke apart, people are constantly looking for hand outs, it’s the “golden cage” scenario. It’s why I will never buy a lottery ticket.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler

 

[Sharkey]

I make less than 200k and consider myself a have. I live far better than I did growing up.

For sure! That number was somewhat an arbitrary choice, but it is right on the cusp putting a family in the top 10% of families in the nation. The numbers get really crazy when you start talking about the top 1%.


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[duktrx]

Agreed, exactly the opposite is true. The stress these guys are under is not worth the money they have. It’s the curse of success. Some of their families have been broke apart, people are constantly looking for hand outs, it’s the “golden cage” scenario. It’s why I will never buy a lottery ticket.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler

Andrew Carnegie said something very similar 111 years ago.

“Of the thousands of men who work for me, I hazard the guess that not more than a score of them would be willing to assume my responsibilities and work the hours I work, if I gave them all the money I possess for doing so. A few of the men who work for me have been willing to assume such responsibilities, and it is significant that every one of these is as rich as he desires to be.”

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[JKbrick]

I often think about this very subject. I am the second generation owner of my business, work my ass off 5 days every week, sometimes 6, rarely take a vacation, and while I’m far from bitching about my lifestyle I’m far from rich either. There is more involved in being rich that working hard you’d never convince me otherwise. I provide a good living to 6 families besides mine and for that I’m proud. I honestly would rather be happy than rich anyways. My two older daughters didn’t speak to me for 8 years after my divorce and that was worse than I think being broke monetarily would be


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[Sharkey]

I often think about this very subject. I am the second generation owner of my business, work my ass off 5 days every week, sometimes 6, rarely take a vacation, and while I’m far from bitching about my lifestyle I’m far from rich either. There is more involved in being rich that working hard you’d never convince me otherwise. I provide a good living to 6 families besides mine and for that I’m proud. I honestly would rather be happy than rich anyways. My two older daughters didn’t speak to me for 8 years after my divorce and that was worse than I think being broke monetarily would be


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If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of margins are the trades getting out there? Around here, some trades (including plumbing) are running 20-30% profit margins (on top of their salaries) on jobs because there is such a shortage of skilled labor. About 80% of my work is in construction and the vast majority of my clients make way, way more than I do.

I very much respect the risk you take on and the fact that you provide a means to make a living for other people. I do the same, and it’s sometimes a very hard burden to bear.


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[JKbrick]

If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of margins are the trades getting out there? Around here, some trades (including plumbing) are running 20-30% profit margins (on top of their salaries) on jobs because there is such a shortage of skilled labor. About 80% of my work is in construction and the vast majority of my clients make way, way more than I do.

I very much respect the risk you take on and the fact that you provide a means to make a living for other people. I do the same, and it’s sometimes a very hard burden to bear.


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About 10% profits, I keep close track of numbers, I think it’s fun, and I’ve tracked over the years around here the plumbing pays right at 4% of the total cost of the house. Commercial is better. Seems low since it is one of the 3 major trades but I guess there are a lot of things that go into a place.


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[Kuboske]

About 10% profits, I keep close track of numbers, I think it’s fun, and I’ve tracked over the years around here the plumbing pays right at 4% of the total cost of the house. Commercial is better. Seems low since it is one of the 3 major trades but I guess there are a lot of things that go into a place.


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I just replaced the geothermal unit, in my house, last fall. Of 5 heating/cooling, contractors, I called, only two even called me back. I'm guessing the others were so covered up with work, they didn't want any more on their plate. I always call anyone that contacts me, back. Even if I don't have time, I at least tell them that.
I think there are huge opportunities for young men with real skills to succeed.
My son, after going to college for a law enforcement degree, now, has little interest in pursuing that line of work. (Who would?)
He has a good job, but, has found that the union will on the job, train guys to be electricians. He is exploring that idea.
We need a whole lot more , trade school people, and a whole lot fewer, university, grads.
P.S. The HVAC, guy that did my geo, drove 55 miles, one way to the job.

 

[WJCO]