VIDEO : DON'T DO THAT AGAIN - Flopping a TJ on Poison Spider Mesa

Wow, that is scary! Glad no one was hurt.
So what caused the flop, was it wheel base, speed, angle or something I'm not seeing? Like Trail JK said looks like he was back heavy


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Thinking much much of the cause was gravity... Followed by momentum.... I say those not to sound facetious. The center of gravity was high, due to the build of the lift kit, and tire size, as well as possible loading of the jeep cargo. Then the momentum of the climb, and the pogo bounce of the rock face.

IMO and not to arm chair QB, just the physics of it... The tires did not look aired down - the lift kit looked like it actually shortened the wheel base more than it was before in the rear - high likelihood of being rear loaded. A little too much gas got under the center of gravity, and even the slight roll back was not fast enough to get back out from the moving center of gravity. Once the center of gravity is on the wrong side of the rigs rear wheels, not much you can do, and not likely fast enough. Before this driver realized he was pitched back more than the rock, was way too late. All of this is physics, only a very small percentage on the drivers actions at the moment. (While the build and loading of the jeep on the driver - but long before the incident)

While if he might have had a chicken strap, the driver would still be dependent for someone to be fast enough on it. By chicken strap, I mean a long recovery strap run through rings on another rig up ahead. (Not just some dudes trying to hold it down - Dangerous!) No glory in that is there??? Even if the other guys rig is not dragging you up - it looks like it though... ;)

Anyway - There is a lot to be said for staying low, and even with the smaller tire approach. Some big rock crawlers will even drag a winch line under the front axle to limit rebound of the front end, and even suck it down - for all the reasons this happened.
 
Thinking much much of the cause was gravity... Followed by momentum.... I say those not to sound facetious. The center of gravity was high, due to the build of the lift kit, and tire size, as well as possible loading of the jeep cargo. Then the momentum of the climb, and the pogo bounce of the rock face.

IMO and not to arm chair QB, just the physics of it... The tires did not look aired down - the lift kit looked like it actually shortened the wheel base more than it was before in the rear - high likelihood of being rear loaded. A little too much gas got under the center of gravity, and even the slight roll back was not fast enough to get back out from the moving center of gravity. Once the center of gravity is on the wrong side of the rigs rear wheels, not much you can do, and not likely fast enough. Before this driver realized he was pitched back more than the rock, was way too late. All of this is physics, only a very small percentage on the drivers actions at the moment. (While the build and loading of the jeep on the driver - but long before the incident)

While if he might have had a chicken strap, the driver would still be dependent for someone to be fast enough on it. By chicken strap, I mean a long recovery strap run through rings on another rig up ahead. (Not just some dudes trying to hold it down - Dangerous!) No glory in that is there??? Even if the other guys rig is not dragging you up - it looks like it though... ;)

Anyway - There is a lot to be said for staying low, and even with the smaller tire approach. Some big rock crawlers will even drag a winch line under the front axle to limit rebound of the front end, and even suck it down - for all the reasons this happened.
The cause is to much speed.All the other factors being discussed are not that critical on this particular object.The proper techniche is to crawl the front tires onto the dome then pause to make sure you are in contact then CRAWL up the rest.I have seen hundreds make this climb and that includes some tall lifted cj5 and samurai.

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It looks like his rear tires are aired down much more than his front. IMO, his fronts aren't aired down at all, causing the rear to sit considerably lower. As soon as he starts climbing his front left tire comes off the ground which is unusual considering he's not even on the steepest part of the obstacle yet.
 
It looks like his rear tires are aired down much more than his front. IMO, his fronts aren't aired down at all, causing the rear to sit considerably lower. As soon as he starts climbing his front left tire comes off the ground which is unusual considering he's not even on the steepest part of the obstacle yet.

All of the weight of the rig is on the rear tires...that is why they appear to have less air than the front...they are most likely aired down the same


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I retract me earlier comment. I don't think he's aired down because if he were, you would expect to see much more sidewall flex on his rear tires, esp with all of the Jeep's weight on the rear axle. Look at his tire, it's completely round

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The more I watch this - I could not wrap my head around something. While watching I kept thinking maybe something in the lift shortened the wheel base... But there is this split second, where the rear tires end up under the door from the rear suspension flex fully extended. Could limit straps in the rear have averted this? Cause its very clear the center of gravity gets over and behind the rear tires. (otherwise would not have gone over) Having them jut forward like that didn't help...
 
I don't recall anywhere in the opening of this thread where the forum was asked to please investigate what went wrong here. Enough of the speculation as to what happened. It could have been any number of things everyone has identified. Bottom line wheeling can result in this. This was a case where this resulted in no injuries and minimal damage. I bet he drove off, a bit shaken, and continued his day. Give it a rest.

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The cause is to much speed.All the other factors being discussed are not that critical on this particular object.The proper techniche is to crawl the front tires onto the dome then pause to make sure you are in contact then CRAWL up the rest.I have seen hundreds make this climb and that includes some tall lifted cj5 and samurai.

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While I'll agree on the technique as described. I think there is much more at play than speed...

You'll note hes not going very fast at all... I'm sticking to center of gravity crossing the plain of the rear wheels as at least 95% of this, followed by the rest being upward rearward momentum of the front end... Once the CG was over the rear wheels - this was a done deal. And the rear wheels did no favor by moving forward past the CG.
 
Best way to explain this to someone who's not been to Moab is:

All of these slick rock ramps or humps have numerous lines. Most folks try and take increasingly steeper and more difficult lines as their skills and confidence grow. That's the fun of it. The best way to take these lines is to try and "crawl" them at not much more than idle speed. That's why you're always hearing discussions about the "correct" tire pressure (how do I get the best grip?). Once you get steep enough to start slipping tires you're forced to A: take a different line or B: roll into it to maintain momentum and traction going up. That's fun too but on really steep stuff like "Dump Bump" or "Widow Maker" you also have to be ready to "roll out of it" in other words find neutral or reverse before you go end over end backwards. This is also the case going down like "High Dive" or "Z turns". You've got to be able to drive out of that as well by getting on the gas before you go ass over frontwards. The thing that's almost impossible to recover from is when you're standing on your nose or rear and you start to creep left or right with the part that's in the air. You can't drive out of that because the jeep gets sideways and rolls before you know it. That's why "off camber" is the enemy when wheeling.

In this case we had just a bit too much approach, entry and climbing speed with not enough time for this driver to react and roll out of it plus he got sideways (off camber) which made it really tough to back out of. Sometimes folks just kind of freeze and put a death grip on the wheel and stay on the gas (see "Hell's Gate" videos). Not saying that's what happened here. Obviously wasn't there.

It happens quick, this "oh shit" moment. Hardly anyone is immune because there's always a line or obstacle that will test you regardless of your experience or level of complacency. Although I'd rather be on my lid in a buggy and not an expensive trail rig the good news is 99% of the time it's a flop job or mild rollover and no one gets hurt; one of the many things that makes Moab cool!

If you're on this forum and in this community and haven't been to Moab yet you've got to go. You'll have a blast! As we've all heard on videos it's "The Promised Land"!


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One day I will go. It is only 1400 miles one way. But I can only do little Jeep things.

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I don't recall anywhere in the opening of this thread where the forum was asked to please investigate what went wrong here. Enough of the speculation as to what happened. It could have been any number of things everyone has identified. Bottom line wheeling can result in this. This was a case where this resulted in no injuries and minimal damage. I bet he drove off, a bit shaken, and continued his day. Give it a rest.

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No shit! All these arm chair quarterbacks who have never wheeled Moab or maybe even wheeled at all are now experts as to what went wrong.


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I don't recall anywhere in the opening of this thread where the forum was asked to please investigate what went wrong here. Enough of the speculation as to what happened. It could have been any number of things everyone has identified. Bottom line wheeling can result in this. This was a case where this resulted in no injuries and minimal damage. I bet he drove off, a bit shaken, and continued his day. Give it a rest.

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I agree 100%


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I don't recall anywhere in the opening of this thread where the forum was asked to please investigate what went wrong here. Enough of the speculation as to what happened. It could have been any number of things everyone has identified. Bottom line wheeling can result in this. This was a case where this resulted in no injuries and minimal damage. I bet he drove off, a bit shaken, and continued his day. Give it a rest.

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I was thinking the same thing! Well said Jesse.
 
I don't recall anywhere in the opening of this thread where the forum was asked to please investigate what went wrong here. Enough of the speculation as to what happened. It could have been any number of things everyone has identified. Bottom line wheeling can result in this. This was a case where this resulted in no injuries and minimal damage. I bet he drove off, a bit shaken, and continued his day. Give it a rest.

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Well said jesse!
 
I don't recall anywhere in the opening of this thread where the forum was asked to please investigate what went wrong here. Enough of the speculation as to what happened. It could have been any number of things everyone has identified. Bottom line wheeling can result in this. This was a case where this resulted in no injuries and minimal damage. I bet he drove off, a bit shaken, and continued his day. Give it a rest.

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No shit, what the hell happened to this thread!! All of us who have wheeled enough, have had some sort of misfortune. To sit here and ridicule is just idiotic. Whatever the issue was, I highly doubt it was done on purpose. And since none of us were in the driver set, we should just zip it and be glad eddies friend wasn't hurt.
 
Sorry the Monday morning QB-ing gets old. I have to deal with it a lot in my industry and unfortunately the majority of the time its discussing an incident that resulted in someone losing their life. Learning from mistakes is a great way to learn but trying to blame the person for making the mistake or saying "He/She should have done this" drives me nuts. People are people and not perfect. We will always make mistakes in life or make decisions who others deem a mistake. This was posted just to provide an example that things like this happen while wheeling, even to the most experienced, which it sounds like this guy was. Thanks for sharing Eddie. OK my rant is over..haha.
 
Glad everybody's all right glad it's Eddie and Cindy were there to take a video incredible how fast they can change from easy-going fun to holy crap
I was hoping Eddie would tell us in his opinion what went wrong unfortunately I haven't got to experience that all you do so and listening and reading it's educational for me so Jesse I'm sorry your work is that overwhelming but some of us do learn from reading and hearing what other peoples opinions are
Like many things their opinions and it's our job to listen pick out the things that are good and disregard the rest
When Eddie posted it didn't say no opinions just watch



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