VIDEO : DON'T DO THAT AGAIN - Flopping a TJ on Poison Spider Mesa

It looks like he hit the brakes coming back down?? Or was that the automatic transmission blocking him on his way back down?

I'm thinking he doesn't have a manual transmission or else if he would have just picked up the clutch it would have came back fine or a quick reverse would have done it too :(

I'm glad everyone is OK, in the end, jeeps are replaceable but not any of us. Take care on the trails!




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So what went wrong?

Since I have not had a chance to enjoy Moab with a Jeep, I was very curious about this. I watched the movie several times and want to learn from the mistakes here.

I see that there are multiple lines, correct? Would he have had the same trouble with a different line/entry point?

Also, why not just slow down or stop when his left wheel was off the ground? From what I could tell and please correct me if I am wrong, but his suspension never got a chance to settle and because he just kept going without taking enough care to tell what the Jeep was telling him was wrong, his Jeep was out of control basically.

Any Moab experts here to put in their two cents worth?
 
This is a great training tool and should be viewed by everyone in the jeeping community. This shows how a simple hill can cause huge problems and help others avoid this type of role over, good that everyone is ok


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Wow glad everyone was ok. I haven't flopped yet but I can imagine how scary that would be from inside the jeep. These clips are good to watch so hopefully rookies, like myself, can possibly avoid.


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NevadaZielmeister said:
So what went wrong?

Since I have not had a chance to enjoy Moab with a Jeep, I was very curious about this. I watched the movie several times and want to learn from the mistakes here.

I see that there are multiple lines, correct? Would he have had the same trouble with a different line/entry point?

Also, why not just slow down or stop when his left wheel was off the ground? From what I could tell and please correct me if I am wrong, but his suspension never got a chance to settle and because he just kept going without taking enough care to tell what the Jeep was telling him was wrong, his Jeep was out of control basically.

Any Moab experts here to put in their two cents worth?
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when he flopped it, thats what went wrong.


I really was expecting Dynatrac Jim to flip the jeep back over:cheesy:
 
Shit like this is what makes me nervous about this hobby of ours. Can happen to anyone.

I could hear eddie almost immediately yell put it in neutral. To have those instincts while driving would be awesome.

Glad nobody was hurt and hopefully the damage wasn't too bad.
 
That's why I leave my spare deflated. Also prevents bending the mount when dropping off a big ledge. What not have expected a flop like that.
 
I'm glad no one was hurt...and hindsight is always 20/20...first rule of a failed hill climb is to put it in reverse and be prepared to drive backwards...sounds easy enough, until it is you in the seat; your first instinct is to step on the brake. I'm sure had this small hill been on the side of a cliff, he would have been moving slower and this would have been a non event.

In the diving industry, fatalities come from two main groups...novices, who have little experience to prepare them for an emergency, and from very experienced divers, who relax their guard because the situation seems very familiar and mundane


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NevadaZielmeister said:
So what went wrong?

Since I have not had a chance to enjoy Moab with a Jeep, I was very curious about this. I watched the movie several times and want to learn from the mistakes here.

I see that there are multiple lines, correct? Would he have had the same trouble with a different line/entry point?

Also, why not just slow down or stop when his left wheel was off the ground? From what I could tell and please correct me if I am wrong, but his suspension never got a chance to settle and because he just kept going without taking enough care to tell what the Jeep was telling him was wrong, his Jeep was out of control basically.

Any Moab experts here to put in their two cents worth?
Click to expand...

Best way to explain this to someone who's not been to Moab is:

All of these slick rock ramps or humps have numerous lines. Most folks try and take increasingly steeper and more difficult lines as their skills and confidence grow. That's the fun of it. The best way to take these lines is to try and "crawl" them at not much more than idle speed. That's why you're always hearing discussions about the "correct" tire pressure (how do I get the best grip?). Once you get steep enough to start slipping tires you're forced to A: take a different line or B: roll into it to maintain momentum and traction going up. That's fun too but on really steep stuff like "Dump Bump" or "Widow Maker" you also have to be ready to "roll out of it" in other words find neutral or reverse before you go end over end backwards. This is also the case going down like "High Dive" or "Z turns". You've got to be able to drive out of that as well by getting on the gas before you go ass over frontwards. The thing that's almost impossible to recover from is when you're standing on your nose or rear and you start to creep left or right with the part that's in the air. You can't drive out of that because the jeep gets sideways and rolls before you know it. That's why "off camber" is the enemy when wheeling.

In this case we had just a bit too much approach, entry and climbing speed with not enough time for this driver to react and roll out of it plus he got sideways (off camber) which made it really tough to back out of. Sometimes folks just kind of freeze and put a death grip on the wheel and stay on the gas (see "Hell's Gate" videos). Not saying that's what happened here. Obviously wasn't there.

It happens quick, this "oh shit" moment. Hardly anyone is immune because there's always a line or obstacle that will test you regardless of your experience or level of complacency. Although I'd rather be on my lid in a buggy and not an expensive trail rig the good news is 99% of the time it's a flop job or mild rollover and no one gets hurt; one of the many things that makes Moab cool!

If you're on this forum and in this community and haven't been to Moab yet you've got to go. You'll have a blast! As we've all heard on videos it's "The Promised Land"!


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JAGS said:
Shit like this is what makes me nervous about this hobby of ours. Can happen to anyone.

I could hear eddie almost immediately yell put it in neutral. To have those instincts while driving would be awesome.

Glad nobody was hurt and hopefully the damage wasn't too bad.
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Having a manual I always have told myself if I were to find myself in this situation to push in the clutch and take my foot off the brake and if possible throw it in reverse and hit the gas. A lot to do in a split second and would never know if I could do it without freezing. As mentioned its easier said than done. Glad no one was hurt and the damage was minimal.



Brute said:
I'm glad no one was hurt...and hindsight is always 20/20...first rule of a failed hill climb is to put it in reverse and be prepared to drive backwards...sounds easy enough, until it is you in the seat; your first instinct is to step on the brake. I'm sure had this small hill been on the side of a cliff, he would have been moving slower and this would have been a non event.

In the diving industry, fatalities come from two main groups...novices, who have little experience to prepare them for an emergency, and from very experienced divers, who relax their guard because the situation seems very familiar and mundane


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Click to expand...

Same goes for my industry.
 
Having watched this several times in stop action it seems to me to be an articulation issue. The driver front tire immediately lifts off the ground. That throws the center of gravity toward the rear. As the passenger front rolls up an arc, the center moves further back, and the forward moving rear takes it over in a flop. It almost looks like the sway bar was not disconnected, but I don't know how this vehicle is set up. I have been to Moab EJS twice and seen some TJ's put wheels in the air while other TJ's don't. Any comments?


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I was thinking the driver hit the brakes as rolling backwards. I dunno - and do not want to second guess - just learn - if driver did hit breaks would it have turned out diff if not? Again - not there not driving but maybe something we can learn?


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Tanktitan said:
Having watched this several times in stop action it seems to me to be an articulation issue. The driver front tire immediately lifts off the ground. That throws the center of gravity toward the rear. As the passenger front rolls up an arc, the center moves further back, and the forward moving rear takes it over in a flop. It almost looks like the sway bar was not disconnected, but I don't know how this vehicle is set up. I have been to Moab EJS twice and seen some TJ's put wheels in the air while other TJ's don't. Any comments?


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TJs are notorious for "pogoing" while climbing complements of that 93" / 94" wheelbase and a very flexy 4 link coil suspension. Add to that a 5" or even larger lift to accommodate 35s or 37s and you get some really high COG. Tall and bouncy is not good at Moab. This TJ looks like it could be about 5" of lift and no long arms.


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Getting out of a situation going backwards is much harder imop than when going forward. It's very natural to steer the proper direction to recover going forward, backward movement is just that, backward. Your reaction has to be opposite from what your brain is telling you. His tranny definitely wound up I could hear the rattle and that slowed the TJ enough to suspension bounce, catch bumper/hitch and get pitched off camber.

I am glad they are ok.


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