piginajeep
The Original Smartass
mmccurdy said:It's okay there were a lot of words to read. You didn't miss much. :rolleyes2:
:beer:
Haha... No kidding.
mmccurdy said:It's okay there were a lot of words to read. You didn't miss much. :rolleyes2:
:beer:
here where i live, most any jeeps would be considered for both, we have hills, wilderness, mud and no dessert. A snorkel would be kind of useless in most aspects around here, but a roof rack and winch would be a must. I think you can have all 3 and have it be considered both, just label it as you use it. then you can change it whenever you want =p
wayoflife said:here's our old overland expedition vehicle...
when you got 3 people you need to haul plus a dog, you need all the help you can get but it sucks. so long as i can help it, i would never go this route again.
GSM early on came up with the right definition, then totally overlooked the obvious by saying he could rent a car to do most of it. I'll tell you something: those pioneers' Conestoga covered wagons didn't have paved or even dirt roads to run the overland trails. Living in the desert as most of you do, the countryside is flat and your rock crawling is for fun, not for the intent of getting from--for instance--Maine to Oregon without traveling paved roads or riding the Appalachian trail (not the Blue Mountain Parkway) from Alabama to Vermont.
Think about the old African safaris. Those people had to carry their homes in their vehicles and those vehicles had to handle all kinds of terrain from dry desert flats to mucky river marshes. They needed a vehicle that not only could carry from 2 to 4 people inside, but they had to carry their entire living supplies--water, fuel, food (though they could hunt for some of that) ammunition and any other scientific data gathering materials. Think about the group of scientists that drove a pair of Jeep Wrangler Unlimiteds (overland equipped) up the slopes of a sleeping 15,000 foot volcano. To be bluntly obvious, a roof rack is a necessity for that kind of work.
We're not talking about a 1- or 2-day trail ride; we're talking about going places no other vehicle has gone and needing to live out of their vehicle for perhaps weeks at a time. A rental car simply cannot do that and quite honestly your typical rental car couldn't even survive the Pan-American highway from Peru to Alaska. That rental car could probably not handle a cross-country run from Kamchatka to Moscow in Russia. That is what an Overland rig is all about.
Until now, the best overland rig in the world was the stereotypical Land Rover Discovery(? Not absolutely certain of the model) you saw in all the old Safari movies. The Jeep JK Unlimited is America's first real challenger for that title.
Yeah, but once again, we're talking about here in America, NOT the Pan-American highway from Peru to Alaska. Here, you need to stick to designated trails and, while I could take you on 4-5 day trail rides through some of the most remote regions of Sierra Nevada or Great Basin Desert where you do have to live out of your Jeep, civilization is still relatively near and certainly not out of the reach of my Spot GPS locator.
My biggest issue is with this idea that there is supposedly a way to specifically make an "overland" JK and that it is somehow better than a well built up JK. And, I have yet to hear a single person prove it. I want to hear actual experiences where a highly built JK broke down and BECAUSE it had specialized aftermarket parts, was left high and dry. Or, I want to hear actual experiences where a guy in a "overland" style JK broke down and was saved because of his minimal build and his ability to find parts in a local town. I hear all kinds of great stories and imagined predicaments but, I have yet to hear any specific facts proving this whole idea of "overland" being somehow better. But hey, that's just me.
Eddie...I want in on the next Sierra Nevada trip :thumb:
P.S ..I am going to start posting more...That "Junior Member' title is bugging me
Quite honestly, as you said it would be difficult to consider overlanding here in the US; our country is in its way simply overpopulated and there's very little real wilderness left. Many of the types of overland trails I would consider are either illegal to even attempt or in some cases purposely blocked.
Yeah. With this post I match you for number of posts and I've only been a member for about 2 hours.:bleh: (well, almost. I thought I had 7 already.)
.....Living in the desert as most of you do, the countryside is flat and your rock crawling is for fun, not for the intent of getting from--for instance--Maine to Oregon without traveling paved roads or riding the Appalachian trail (not the Blue Mountain Parkway) from Alabama to Vermont.
".....Think about the old African safaris. Those people had to carry their homes in their vehicles and those vehicles had to handle all kinds of terrain from dry desert flats to mucky river marshes. They needed a vehicle that not only could carry from 2 to 4 people inside, but they had to carry their entire living supplies--water, fuel, food (though they could hunt for some of that) ammunition and any other scientific data gathering materials. Think about the group of scientists that drove a pair of Jeep Wrangler Unlimiteds (overland equipped) up the slopes of a sleeping 15,000 foot volcano. To be bluntly obvious, a roof rack is a necessity for that kind of work.
........We're not talking about a 1- or 2-day trail ride; we're talking about going places no other vehicle has gone and needing to live out of their vehicle for perhaps weeks at a time. A rental car simply cannot do that and quite honestly your typical rental car couldn't even survive the Pan-American highway from Peru to Alaska. That rental car could probably not handle a cross-country run from Kamchatka to Moscow in Russia. That is what an Overland rig is all about.
......Until now, the best overland rig in the world was the stereotypical Land Rover Discovery(? Not absolutely certain of the model) you saw in all the old Safari movies. The Jeep JK Unlimited is America's first real challenger for that title.
Have you ever been out here?? The southwest is NOT flat, I live in the 5th largest city in America and there is a 2000' mountain down the street from my house.
We do rock crawl for fun, but have you seen the canyons and washes we drive? It's terrain that even the settlers avoided. How is my jeep not set up for going across country not using paved roads :thinking: Is it the snorkel I'm missing? Again, my jeep can go everywhere an "overland rig" can go, but that same "overland rig" most certainly cannot go where mine goes.
Sorry. But once again, my jeep can do this too and quite comfortably at that :thumb:
Actually, wrong on this point too. I have driven parts of the world (Russia, eastern Europe, the former Russian states, Pakistan, and most middle eastern countries) in 4x4's, Mitsubishi cars, Toyota Celicas, Russian Volgas, even a Ford Taurus (oddly enough in Uzbekistan) that most Offroaders here in the US wouldn't take their Rubicon into. I have been in Afghanistan since the beginning in 2001 and have seen the craziest stuff imaginable with two wheel drive cars, and yes, the average Afghan does more hardcore wheeling in his Celica just to get food than 75% of the forum readers will ever do, simply because it's a "must do to survive" and not a "sport".
The only reason Land Rovers ended up in these countries is because they are all former, or we're going to be, British colonies. Had the US done a bit more crusading in its early days, well they would all be driving jeeps. :thumb: BTW, I am a huge Land Rover fan, owned several, so no hating here. There is a picture of my "Overlanding" LR3 somewhere in this thread. You know why I don't have it anymore? I got tired of taking by-passes on trails and having to watch stock jeeps go on into the wilds of America without me :cheesy:
Like some throughout this thread, I'm just not getting how an "overland built" jeep/truck/car/bus/ is supposed to be better at crossing a plethora of different terrains and/or distances any better than my rig on 40" tires and coilovers.
Peace out :icon_crazy:
G
The only reason Land Rovers ended up in these countries is because they are all former, or we're going to be, British colonies. Had the US done a bit more crusading in its early days, well they would all be driving jeeps.
GCM 2 said:Have you ever been out here?? The southwest is NOT flat, I live in the 5th largest city in America and there is a 2000' mountain down the street from my house.
We do rock crawl for fun, but have you seen the canyons and washes we drive? It's terrain that even the settlers avoided. How is my jeep not set up for going across country not using paved roads :thinking: Is it the snorkel I'm missing? Again, my jeep can go everywhere an "overland rig" can go, but that same "overland rig" most certainly cannot go where mine goes.
Sorry. But once again, my jeep can do this too and quite comfortably at that :thumb:
Actually, wrong on this point too. I have driven parts of the world (Russia, eastern Europe, the former Russian states, Pakistan, and most middle eastern countries) in 4x4's, Mitsubishi cars, Toyota Celicas, Russian Volgas, even a Ford Taurus (oddly enough in Uzbekistan) that most Offroaders here in the US wouldn't take their Rubicon into. I have been in Afghanistan since the beginning in 2001 and have seen the craziest stuff imaginable with two wheel drive cars, and yes, the average Afghan does more hardcore wheeling in his Celica just to get food than 75% of the forum readers will ever do, simply because it's a "must do to survive" and not a "sport".
The only reason Land Rovers ended up in these countries is because they are all former, or we're going to be, British colonies. Had the US done a bit more crusading in its early days, well they would all be driving jeeps. :thumb: BTW, I am a huge Land Rover fan, owned several, so no hating here. There is a picture of my "Overlanding" LR3 somewhere in this thread. You know why I don't have it anymore? I got tired of taking by-passes on trails and having to watch stock jeeps go on into the wilds of America without me :cheesy:
Like some throughout this thread, I'm just not getting how an "overland built" jeep/truck/car/bus/ is supposed to be better at crossing a plethora of different terrains and/or distances any better than my rig on 40" tires and coilovers.
Peace out :icon_crazy:
G
I've been trying to describe what an overland rig is, not trying to say it's better or worse in any way. The original question of this entire discussion was "Roof Rack + Snorkel + Overland?
The answer is, basically, "Yes." An overlander is essentially little more than a 4WD station wagon with sufficient ground clearance to travel through rough terrain and the means to travel through any environment an excursion would expect. It needs to be as completely self-sufficient as possible with the capacity to carry enough supplies to accommodate its passengers for an extended period away from ready assistance.
To be quite honest, even going for the fat rock-crawling tires of WayofLife's three rigs is overkill since replacements even for that size tire may be impossible in some places that overland rigs may travel outside the United States.
As I said, most modified Jeeps in the US are probably far more rig than such groups would want because they would see all those modifications as wasted money.
Sure, your Land Rover may take the bypasses, but overland exploration is looking for the easiest available route, not the most difficult. if a horse and cart can go over the trail, the Land Rover (Defender?) can take that same trail and the base Unlimited X, Sport and even Sahara can do just as well if not better.
As I said, most of you are too close to the issue to see the differences.
I don't fault you for challenging your vehicles (hey, I have an '08 Sahara myself which took the #5 and #6 trails at Rousch Creek, PA factory stock) but again, that's not the intent or purpose of an overland rig.
Get through however you can, the easiest trail you can find, and you've succeeded. Less is more in that case.