Fire in California
- Thread starter Dale72
- Start date
OverlanderJK
Resident Smartass
I will refer you all to post number 4 in this thread.
www.wayalife.com
Fire in California
Hope everyone stays safe, and don't lose anything in the wild fire that started this morning
www.wayalife.com
TrailHunter
Hooked
What State are you in?I will refer you all to post number 4 in this thread.
Fire in California
Hope everyone stays safe, and don't lose anything in the wild fire that started this morning
jeeeep
Hooked
I feel for the people who have lost everything but fuck that federal 100% reimbursement when this was 100% avoidable.
the people should be going after Newsom and his inept group of clowns the majority voted in with their bullshit voting system gamed to keep democrats in power.
If anything, the federal government should be telling Newsom fuck around... you just found out.
TrailHunter
Hooked
JAGS
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People can say and blame all politicians for a lot. This isn’t a Trump thing. And I’m not even a Trump fan. Fires are difficult to prevent. Thus I’m looking directly at DWP and LAC for preparedness. High winds are not that new.
JT@623
Hooked
Don’t forget the EPA
AZVAJKU
Hooked
I’ve been trying to do some digging. Seen a lot of things posted online and a lot of folks outraged.
I had no idea this was the case, but apparently the protection of certain mice and fish fall under the endangered species act. Read this in an article yesterday that said the act was some federal law enacted in 1973 and states are required to follow. So I looked up the act. Article also mentioned how much federal forest land there is in CA. State can’t maintain fed forests. Not sure what to make of it all as lots of finger pointing from everyone in gov.
Seems there should be some sort of exemption when human life is at stake, rather than saving mice and fish. I don’t care who, but someone needs to step up with common sense before more shit happens. Walk and chew gum. Thousands of properties and growing number of lives lost. Like you said, we need to look at state and fed policies!
Endangered Species Act | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
The Endangered Species Act establishes protections for fish, wildlife, and plants that are listed as threatened or endangered; provides for adding species to and removing them from the list of threatened and endangered species, and for preparing and implementing plans for their recovery; provideswww.fws.gov
The federal endangered species act has some good points and some bad. It’s been abused by radical environmentalists groups as a way to control land and prevent public or private use.
It also turns out that the state of California has its own state level endangered species act. Some of the species overlap with the Feds and some are only California. So California is solely responsible for those.
See here:
Also it turns out a state or private group can petition to add a species to the Federal list, and of course there are Federal Government taxpayer dollars to be paid to support this. Generous amounts of your tax dollars paid to states and individuals for management and ‘study’ of species. How could that possibly be abused. (Sarcasm)
Listing Species Under the Endangered Species Act
Before a species can receive the protection provided by the Endangered Species Act, it must first be added to the federal lists of endangered and threatened wildlife and plants. A species is added to this list when we determine that it has met definition of endangered or threatened under the...
From the website:
How to petition:
There are two ways by which a species may come to be listed (or delisted) under the ESA:
1. We receive a petition from a person or organization requesting that we list a species as threatened or endangered, reclassify a species, or delist a species
2. We voluntarily choose to examine the status of a species by initiating a status review of a species
I need to get in on this. Maybe I can make up a new squirrel species and get some $$ for all the dang squirrels around here.
There is an infamous case of an ‘endangered’ squirrel claim being used by a radical environmentalist group to stop the expansion of a telescope facility in Arizona. The squirrel was actually an invasive species brought there years earlier by an astronomer from back east.
JAGS
Hooked
I don’t think the EPA started the fire either. Leaning toward arson. But sparking power lines still could be true. I don’t know what percentage of the fire burned state, fed or private land. Regardless, how counties are prepared or require brush clearance is on them.
JAGS
Hooked
I would agree on the good and the bad. Need to read more on the link you shared. Didn’t realize there were multiple.The federal endangered species act has some good points and some bad. It’s been abused by radical environmentalists groups as a way to control land and prevent public or private use.
It also turns out that the state of California has its own state level endangered species act. Some of the species overlap with the Feds and some are only California. So California is solely responsible for those.
See here:
Also it turns out a state or private group can petition to add a species to the Federal list, and of course there are Federal Government taxpayer dollars to be paid to support this. Generous amounts of your tax dollars paid to states and individuals for management and ‘study’ of species. How could that possibly be abused. (Sarcasm)
Listing Species Under the Endangered Species Act
Before a species can receive the protection provided by the Endangered Species Act, it must first be added to the federal lists of endangered and threatened wildlife and plants. A species is added to this list when we determine that it has met definition of endangered or threatened under the...www.fisheries.noaa.gov
From the website:
How to petition:
There are two ways by which a species may come to be listed (or delisted) under the ESA:
1. We receive a petition from a person or organization requesting that we list a species as threatened or endangered, reclassify a species, or delist a species
2. We voluntarily choose to examine the status of a species by initiating a status review of a species
I need to get in on this. Maybe I can make up a new squirrel species and get some $$ for all the dang squirrels around here.
There is an infamous case of an ‘endangered’ squirrel claim being used by a radical environmentalist group to stop the expansion of a telescope facility in Arizona. The squirrel was actually an invasive species brought there years earlier by an astronomer from back east.
AZVAJKU
Hooked
JT@623
Hooked
No but they kept forest service and any one else from clearing brush or trees. No bull dozing for fire breaks the list of bull shit regulations goes on.
JAGS
Hooked
I hope investigations discover the truth. The cause. What might have helped, etc. I also believe that sustained 80-100 mph winds created conditions that normal precautions would not have mattered. Just watched several firefighters and chief marone interviewed and basically said the fire was unstoppable for the first 2 days because of the wind conditions and spread. He and the OC chief said it would have taken 26,000 fire engines to battle this blaze. Many residents also sharing how fast it moved. I can’t even begin to imaging. Tragic beyond words.
Edit: found a link to one of the article/interviews I just noted.
Los Angeles County wildfires: The ongoing fight to stop the fires and the devastation of neighborhoods
Days after fires began tearing through homes in the Los Angeles area, families are returning to smoldering neighborhoods as firefighters continue their battle against the deadly wildfires.
www.cbsnews.com
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jesse3638
Hooked
Given my past experience this is exactly my opinionas well. Once it started the conditions all aligned and it was unstoppable. It would have jumped fire breaks and all the clearing wouldn't have mattered because houses and structures were the fuel carrying its forward rate of spread. The best they could have done would have been to try and steer it around properties. The big question is what started it?
JAGS
Hooked
Multi-billion dollar question. And appreciate you sharing your first hand experience.
Ddays
Hooked
I still don't understand why cities bordering an ocean don't have some kind of deluge system drawing seawater and just blasting it preemptively wouldn't at least help. And as far as it killing plants, trees & such, it beats the alternative.
mymodernmet.com
Japanese Village Hosts “Water Hose Festival” To Test Its Impressive Fire Extinguishing System
This Japanese village had a terrible fire about 20 years ago, so now they have an incredible fire extinguishing system. Tourists love to visit to watch it in action.
mymodernmet.com
NPC 6060⁸42
Hooked
The problem with this narrative is there will be no accountability that’s why this is being pushed. These fires never should have happened and there is nothing to blame but incompetence and misplaced priority’s. There’s Santa Ana winds pretty much every year and California is a desert the brush (fuel) could have been cleared. The reservoir (closed for aesthetic maintenance) should have been full. As Ddays pointed out there’s a metric fuckton of water right there in the Pacific Ocean.Theyve had how many years to come up with a pumping scheme to suppress wild fires but the politicians are supporting other priority’s and I’m not just talking newsome and bass this should have been addressed after the 63 wildfires. America has the best engineers in the world does anyone believe that if someone said we need a fire suppression system for the canyons and hillsides around LA that it couldn’t be done? Would it have been expensive? Yes but a hell of a lot cheaper than what we are looking at today. Short of that the LAFD is so short staffed but if they were fully funded they could have had pre positioned assets in those canyons jumping on the brushfires before they got to uncontrollable levels. The forecasts called for extreme Santa Ana conditions days prior to this happening but no preemptive action was taken. Don’t let the government off the hook so easily. Hold them accountable or continue to lose lives and property to avoidable situations.
Rant off.
jesse3638
Hooked
I'm not letting the politicians off at all, but I'm also not sure what you think could have been done. Are you suggesting that all the hillsides be cleared of brush? If so that's just ridiculous. Could they have tried building a huge fire break around these communities? Yes. Biggest problem with that is these home owners probably wouldn't have wanted that due to it affecting the aesthetics and privacy of their neighborhood. Not to mention all the tree huggers fighting it. Also given the conditions it probably would not have done much given the high winds and ember cast creating spot fires within the neighborhood. As I said once it was in the neighborhood it was the structures carying the fire. That reservoir didn't directly feed the hydrants so I'm not sure how that would have provided additional water. What happened is the municipal water system was overwhelmed and simply ran out. Probably old and should have been upgraded. With regards to the ocean. Sure they could have set up a system to pump from it but it would have only been used in a case like this and would sit idle for years therefore creating a reliability issue with such a system. With the given factors they could have had all the people in the world prepo'd there and it wouldn't have helped much. This fire went from to ignition to uncontrollable in minutes so unless the got to the point of ignition as it started this thing would not have been stopped. Besides no one knew a fire was going to be there. What of they guessed wrong and prepo'd fire equipment in the wrong area say the ventura area or Santa Barbara? Now the response to pacific palisades or altadena is extended. To many coulda, woulda, shouldas. From what I see about the only thing that would habe maybe helped would habe been to take a stand on the edge of the community before the fire got there and set fire to the brush there to keep it from impacting so hard. Again the winds were so strong once the structures caught fire they were what was fueling the fire spread. Were they supposed to bulldoze houses to create a fire line? Same thing happened in 2003 whem the old fire ran down into San Bernardino.
Ddays
Hooked
Then at minimum, why not have a "supression wall" with monitors like these set up on the borders of the neighbors that would flood the area and act as a break?
