Winching 101

Canvas JK said:
On the WAYALIFE YouTube channel there is a 3 part series on the Rubicon and I believe part two shows the recovery of a 4 door that flopped on the side. You can see how to use the snatch block and dual winches. Also on the 2014 JKX part 2 or 3 there is a recovery of a 4 door JK that flopped on the passenger side. In the 2011 JKX in Carnage Canyon you can see Moby being winched up. There are several other video's that show how to use your winch.

R/
Will
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That was a good one lol
 
Moochie said:
Mine, and it works fine. So far, (knock on wood) has worked with all D-rings.
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Mooch, that is a "Safety Thimble" by Viking (captain obvious here), but that is in no way to be confused with the Factor 55 piece. You can actually slip a 7/8 clevis or pin through that thimble. It is what I use, it's also what we use on EVO1 during the races. However, the big snap hook that is shown in the picture by Wayoflife is what we use on EVO TJ, and actually is the best thing for us in a racing application. Very fast connect and disconnect times, not as much fumbling. I like both the thimble and the huge snap hook
 
mudmobeeler said:
Looks like a good size, looks like both ends of a strap would fit on it.
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LOL!! Honestly, it bugs me to no end how Factor55 tries to scare people into thinking that they somehow need their overpriced piece of billet aluminum with photos like this.

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NOBODY I know does this!! No less than you would with a Factor55 thimble, all you need to do is connect both ends of your tree strap on a D-ring and then connect ANY standard hook that comes with your winch to it. Here is a shot that I took of how it can also be done using a snatch strap. Now, just imagine a hook in place of the snatch block - it's the same thing.

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Even with the hook I showed, I would still do what you see above especially if there's a chance others may need to use the same winch point.
 
wayoflife said:
LOL!! Honestly, it bugs me to no end how Factor55 tries to scare people into thinking that they somehow need their overpriced piece of billet aluminum with photos like this.

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NOBODY I know does this!! No less than you would with a Factor55 thimble, all you need to do is connect both ends of your tree strap on a D-ring and then connect ANY standard hook that comes with your winch to it. Here is a shot that I took of how it can also be done using a snatch strap. Now, just imagine a hook in place of the snatch block - it's the same thing.

Even with the hook I showed, I would still do what you see above especially if there's a chance others may need to use the same winch point.
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I used to work in the rigging industry, manufacturing winch lines, tow/snatch straps, tow ropes, and we sold all sorts of hooks, shackles etc, so I figure I could shed a little extra light.

The hook you have pictured above, and exactly what comes with 99% of winches is really an inadequate part. They are no way meant for any type of rope, synthetic or wire. They are cheap grade 30 or 40 hooks for chain, hence the Clevis style, it's really meant to hook into a chain link there. The grade 30 items are classified as general purpose items, farm use or personal kind of stuff. They're not even rated for tie downs, never mind lifting. I realize many people use them with no issue, but personally would never trust one if them on my rig.

Next step up is grade 70, tie down chain and fittings. This stuff is typically played gold. It's better than your cheap grade 30 stuff, but once again still not rated for overhead lifting. In other words it's not trusted in the commercial/industrial world in dangerous lifts that could be dangerous to people.

Next along the line you get grade 80, followed by grade 100. Both of these are rated for overhead lifting and is what I feel safe around pending proper use. The yellow/orange hook you had a picture of earlier Eddie, is a grade 80 self locking style hook. As someone else mentioned, it can not physically open while loaded due to the design. IMO, best hook design out there. There is also plenty of room inside the hook for your straps. The latches are strong but easily replaced if you break one.

For those of you interested in a hook like that, any local rigging shop should have them, and be able to install one on your current winch line for a minimal amount, plus the cost of the hook of course.

Just a quick FYI for you guys, virtually any chain / wire rope fittings you buy such as hooks and shackles are manufactured in China to minimum American standards. If you are after a superior product, look for Crosby. You likely won't find it at any off road shop tho, only a rigging shop or industrial supply place. It's all built in the usa or Canada to a higher standard. If you do go looking for them, ask for Screw Pin Anchor Shackles. The offroad community for whatever reason refers to them as d-rings, which is technically a whole different thing. I would be happy to elaborate or answer questions as I rarely run into anyone with first hand experience with this kind of stuff. It was my job for about 4 years after high school, but decided to trade it in for something a little easier on my body.
 
Well this has turned into way more than it has needed to be. If you like a hook use a hook. Just use a decent one at least and don't use it like an idiot.

If you dig the looks of a thimble, go with that. Just before you go on a trip make sure you have a shackle that fits it. And better yet, just put the dang shackle in the thimble and leave it. Is it as fast as a hook? No. Will it be stronger than most of the hooks that come standard with most winches? Probably, if you don't buy a shittybilt shackle.

As poster above said Crosby makes good stuff as well as Van Beest. Anyways, moving on now.
 
Mjay said:
I used to work in the rigging industry...
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And I once stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. :naw:

...manufacturing winch lines, tow/snatch straps, tow ropes, and we sold all sorts of hooks, shackles etc, so I figure I could shed a little extra light.

The hook you have pictured above, and exactly what comes with 99% of winches is really an inadequate part. They are no way meant for any type of rope, synthetic or wire. They are cheap grade 30 or 40 hooks for chain, hence the Clevis style, it's really meant to hook into a chain link there. The grade 30 items are classified as general purpose items, farm use or personal kind of stuff. They're not even rated for tie downs, never mind lifting.
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So, what you're saying is that companies like WARN have been making and selling thousands upon thousands of winches with these substandard hooks for almost 70 years. Crazy to think that they're still in business after all these years being that so many people would have had these totally cheap and unsafe hooks. Surely there must be case after case of all these hooks failing on people and causing serious harm. You being the self-proclaimed expert and all, certainly you can show some kind of proof of all these failures, right? :naw:
 
Well, in the post you quoted from WOL, I did in fact state that I realize tons of people use the hooks provided without issue. I did not say that everyone should run out and change their hooks because they're going to spontaneously rip apart either, nor am I claiming to be an expert.

I am saying that they are not the correct item for the application. Yes, they work. Is there an item manufactured that better suits the winching application? Yes. You posted the picture of the self locking hook, which is safer, manufactured to a higher standard, and suits the application.

I'm not trying to get into an argument, I'm not trying to scare people, and I'm not telling anyone what to do. Just trying to share first hand knowledge that I have from my time there.
 
Mjay said:
Well, in the post you quoted from WOL, I did in fact state that I realize tons of people use the hooks provided without issue. I did not say that everyone should run out and change their hooks because they're going to spontaneously rip apart either, nor am I claiming to be an expert.

I am saying that they are not the correct item for the application. Yes, they work. Is there an item manufactured that better suits the winching application? Yes. You posted the picture of the self locking hook, which is safer, manufactured to a higher standard, and suits the application.

I'm not trying to get into an argument, I'm not trying to scare people, and I'm not telling anyone what to do. Just trying to share first hand knowledge that I have from my time there.
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In your previous post you said the hook pictured is inadequate but now you are saying the hook is safer and suits the application. Which one is it?

Are you an engineer by chance?
 
Mjay said:
Well, in the post you quoted from WOL, I did in fact state that I realize tons of people use the hooks provided without issue. I did not say that everyone should run out and change their hooks because they're going to spontaneously rip apart either, nor am I claiming to be an expert.

I am saying that they are not the correct item for the application. Yes, they work. Is there an item manufactured that better suits the winching application? Yes. You posted the picture of the self locking hook, which is safer, manufactured to a higher standard, and suits the application.

I'm not trying to get into an argument, I'm not trying to scare people, and I'm not telling anyone what to do. Just trying to share first hand knowledge that I have from my time there.
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Actually too said it was an "inadequate part" which to some(me included) seems to suggest you are saying not to use it.

Would you drive your family around in a vehicle with "inadequate" tires or tire pressure? NO.

I agree with Eddie here. Warn supplies these because they are adequate for what they are used for. Are there better options? Sure but not inadequate.
 
Mjay said:
Well, in the post you quoted from WOL, I did in fact state that I realize tons of people use the hooks provided without issue. I did not say that everyone should run out and change their hooks because they're going to spontaneously rip apart either
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Nah, you just made sure to try and scare people stating how "inadequate" their hooks are and how "they are no way meant for any type of rope, synthetic or wire. They are cheap grade 30 or 40 hooks for chain". :naw:

nor am I claiming to be an expert.
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:cheesy: You're right, you just made sure to qualify yourself by saying you "used to work in the rigging industry, manufacturing winch lines, tow/snatch straps, tow ropes, and we sold all sorts of hooks, shackles etc" as if that means something and that's how come you could "shed a little extra light". :naw:

I am saying that they are not the correct item for the application.
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To be fair, JUST IN YOUR SELF-PROCLAIMED PROFESSIONAL OPINION.

They work. Is there an item manufactured that better suits the winching application? Yes. You posted the picture of the self locking hook, which is safer, manufactured to a higher standard, and suits the application.
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LOL!! Oh please, had you just said that and only that from the beginning, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. You're just as bad as the Factor55 guys. :naw:

I'm not trying to get into an argument, I'm not trying to scare people, and I'm not telling anyone what to do. Just trying to share first hand knowledge that I have from my time there.
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Yes you are trying to scare people and by virtue of it, trying to tell people what to do. You SAY you have first hand knowledge - I want to see proof of it.
 
OverlanderJK said:
In your previous post you said the hook pictured is inadequate but now you are saying the hook is safer and suits the application. Which one is it?

Are you an engineer by chance?
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Perhaps inadequate was not the best word to convey what I was trying to say. The hook I'm saying is safer is the yellow/orange hook pictured on a previous page, not the silver one.

The way I look at it is similar to things we do on our jeeps and other everyday things. The hook provided with most winches is not the application the hook was intended for. Similar to how we do DIY projects and adapt items to be used in the way we wish.

Like I said, it works, but is not the best thing for the application. I have seen the aftermath of rigging equipment failing, and it can be deadly and gruesome. I just prefer to be cautious.
Really guys, just trying to share knowledge. You can dismiss me as incompetent if you wish, or take what info you want from it.
 
Mjay said:
The hook provided with most winches is not the application the hook was intended for.
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And that's why WARN would sell their 9500 or even 12000 series winches with these inadequate hooks. Clearly, they are making winches that can pull way more than their hooks can withstand. Got it. :naw:

I have seen the aftermath of rigging equipment failing, and it can be deadly and gruesome.
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Yeah, you said that a few times now and I've asked a few times now for PROOF of a winch hook that has failed. Lets see some of these deadly and gruesome injuries caused by failed winch hooks. Ya got em or don't ya? :naw:

Really guys, just trying to share knowledge. You can dismiss me as incompetent if you wish, or take what info you want from it.
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Oh, don't worry, I dismissed you a long time ago. I'm just trying to make sure others don't read your nonsense and mistake it as fact.
 
So when mjay says failed hook I think of this.
Btw is says through his forehead and out the back window


Volunteer Fire Fighter Dies After Being Struck by a Shackle on a Recoiling Tow Rope – South Dakota

SUMMARY

On April 8, 2006, a 38-year-old male volunteer fire fighter (the victim) was struck by a shackle on a recoiling tow rope and died three days later. The fire department was dispatched to a controlled burn that had escaped its boundaries. Fire fighters arrived on the scene, extinguished the fire, and started departing the scene. An engine was being driven out of a soybean field when it became stuck in the mud. An attempt was made to tow the engine from the field using a tractor, tow rope and screw-type shackles on either end of the tow rope attached to the tractor and engine. With the victim sitting in the driver’s seat of the engine and another fire fighter sitting in the passenger’s seat, a farmer started moving the tractor forward. When tension was applied to the tow rope, the shackle on the tractor failed and the tow rope with it’s shackle attached recoiled toward the engine. The shackle smashed through the windshield, struck the victim in the forehead and then proceeded out through the back window. Other fire fighters, standing in the area, witnessed the incident and ran to the aid of the victim and called for Emergency Medical Services (EMS). The victim was transported by ambulance to the local hospital and then was air lifted to a metropolitan trauma center. The victim died three days later on April 11, 2006, due to the injuries he sustained in the incident.
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http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face200622.html
Thoughts on this
http://www.warn.com/truck/accessories/premium_winch_hook.shtml
 
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