Stronger axle question

[turbineguy]

The G2 Rock Jock only comes in a 3" tube that is only .25" thick (same as a factory Dana 44) and only comes with 30 spline axle shafts. It also comes with a weaker than stock 1310 yoke. I mean, if you're gonna run a so called "60" with a bigger ring and pinon, I can't imagine why you would run such a weak drive shaft. By contrast, the Dynatrac Trail 60 comes with heavy duty 3-1/8” tubes that are 5/16” wall DOM and is available with a 1350 yoke. Of course, this is to say nothing about the fact that it comes with 35 spline 1.5”, induction-hardened, alloy steel axle shafts. Simply put, you get what you pay for.

My G2 RJ3 came with a 1350 yokes and set 80 bearings and alloy shafts at 700 less than a trail series with 1310. Both reuse brakes. I just didn't see the tube thickness as being a big enough factor to make up the difference in price.

If (who am I kidding... When) I upgrade again (hello LS) I will definitely go with a Dynatrac 80. Definitely worth the extra money.

 

[wayoflife]

My G2 RJ3 came with a 1350 yokes and set 80 bearings and alloy shafts at 700 less than a trail series with 1310. Both reuse brakes. I just didn't see the tube thickness as being a big enough factor to make up the difference in price.

If (who am I kidding... When) I upgrade again (hello LS) I will definitely go with a Dynatrac 80. Definitely worth the extra money.

LOL!! I hope you know that I wasn't trying to convince you that you made a mistake but rather, was just responding to suicideking's question. Having said that, it's good that you got a 1350 yoke but, is it safe to assume that you still just got 30-spline shafts? Also, a 3" tube with a .25" thickness (what you get with a stock Dana 44) is known to bend and lead to other problems such as broken lockers, leaks between the tubes and diff, etc. This is pretty much the biggest reasons why people want to upgrade to a 60 in the first place. And, however slight it may be, a bigger diameter tube will give you a bigger cross section and when combined with a greater thickness, you will measurably increase the strength of it. Of course, being able to run 35-spline shaft is a BIG bonus too and between the two, I think is well worth the additional $700. But of course, that's just me. :yup:

 

[TheDuff]

LOL!! I hope you know that I wasn't trying to convince you that you made a mistake but rather, was just responding to suicideking's question. Having said that, it's good that you got a 1350 yoke but, is it safe to assume that you still just got 30-spline shafts? Also, a 3" tube with a .25" thickness (what you get with a stock Dana 44) is known to bend and lead to other problems such as broken lockers, leaks between the tubes and diff, etc. This is pretty much the biggest reasons why people want to upgrade to a 60 in the first place. And, however slight it may be, a bigger diameter tube will give you a bigger cross section and when combined with a greater thickness, you will measurably increase the strength of it. Of course, being able to run 35-spline shaft is a BIG bonus too and between the two, I think is well worth the additional $700. But of course, that's just me. :yup:

How dare u, who do u think u are to be willing to spend $700 more for a quality, made in the US of A product, that is imo superior???!!!?!

Sent from my LG-D800 using WAYALIFE mobile app

 

[turbineguy]

How dare u, who do u think u are to be willing to spend $700 more for a quality, made in the US of A product, that is imo superior???!!!?!

Sent from my LG-D800 using WAYALIFE mobile app

Try your jingoistic bs with someone else. At least Eddie made a rational argument with some very good points. This comment is like playground chatter... the little follower trying to get in good with the playground leader.

After retiring with 22 years in the military, I don't think my patriotism can be questioned. I think I've earned a right to buy a product that was assembled in America and beats what I had. Rest assured that I will use that $700 I saved to spend on good old American beer and women (well unless I end up with a job working down in South America, in which case I will do my best to leave a little American something behind ;-) )

punctuation, punctuation, punctuation, little face symbols, little face symbols, little face symbols.

 

[ridg3runner]

too much starch on the boxers?

We are Jeep..Resistance is futile..

 

[TheDuff]

Try your jingoistic bs with someone else. At least Eddie made a rational argument with some very good points. This comment is like playground chatter... the little follower trying to get in good with the playground leader.

After retiring with 22 years in the military, I don't think my patriotism can be questioned. I think I've earned a right to buy a product that was assembled in America and beats what I had. Rest assured that I will use that $700 I saved to spend on good old American beer and women (well unless I end up with a job working down in South America, in which case I will do my best to leave a little American something behind ;-) )

punctuation, punctuation, punctuation, little face symbols, little face symbols, little face symbols.

Way to completely over analyze my little joke to Eddie. I don't really care what YOU bought or how much YOU spent, it doesn't matter to me. And cool, you served 22 years in the military, thanks for that, want some of my brownie points? Going to point out how I started out a sentence with "AND"? I never questioned YOUR patriotism, so sit back, relax, and enjoy some of that beer you bought with the $700 you saved. Kktksbai :beer::beer::beer:

Sent from my LG-D800 using WAYALIFE mobile app

 

[turbineguy]

too much starch on the boxers?

We are Jeep..Resistance is futile..

Nope, but my tighty whities might be a size to small, they weren't made in America.

So.... Yes OP. There are stronger axles with same bolt pattern.

Now, when is Moby going to be on the road again.

 

[g_dub]

G2 rock jock's are using Currie housings has currie emblems welded all over them. 3" x .3125 wall axle tubes which is 5/16 if i remember right not 1/4 it is a 35 spline axle set with set 80 bearings axles are damn near 2" and neck down Gradually to 1.5" 35 spline. G2's are not like the old genuwhine axle. Do a little research G2 is made in the USA. I did Turbine guy's axle swap had the Rock Jock axles out swapping the brakes around built his Pro rock 44 an I was very impressed I have built the dynatrac's swapping gear ratio's around and I know this the Currie is a little higher quality maybe a extra couple minutes they took as far as my nit picking little more time taken to deslag around the welds the adjust ability on the bracketry stuff like that just makes a cleaner appearance and higher quality product because of those things . Just a little FYI not starting a war.

G

 

[turbineguy]

G2 rock jock's are using Currie housings has currie emblems welded all over them. 3" x .3125 wall axle tubes which is 5/16 if i remember right not 1/4 it is a 35 spline axle set with set 80 bearings axles are damn near 2" and neck down Gradually to 1.5" 35 spline. G2's are not like the old genuwhine axle. Do a little research G2 is made in the USA. I did Turbine guy's axle swap had the Rock Jock axles out swapping the brakes around built his Pro rock 44 an I was very impressed I have built the dynatrac's swapping gear ratio's around and I know this the Currie is a little higher quality maybe a extra couple minutes they took as far as my nit picking little more time taken to deslag around the welds the adjust ability on the bracketry stuff like that just makes a cleaner appearance and higher quality product because of those things . Just a little FYI not starting a war.

G

What's up man. Justin told me you wanted to go run with us sometime. Heard you have a new Rubi?

By the way, I told Jeff to pass along my thanks. My Jeep drives like a dream. Better than before. It's sad it's spending so much time at the Airport.

I can't wait to hit the trails and try everything out.

 

[wayoflife]

G2 rock jock's are using Currie housings has currie emblems welded all over them. 3" x .3125 wall axle tubes which is 5/16 if i remember right not 1/4 it is a 35 spline axle set with set 80 bearings axles are damn near 2" and neck down Gradually to 1.5" 35 spline. G2's are not like the old genuwhine axle. Do a little research G2 is made in the USA. I did Turbine guy's axle swap had the Rock Jock axles out swapping the brakes around built his Pro rock 44 an I was very impressed I have built the dynatrac's swapping gear ratio's around and I know this the Currie is a little higher quality maybe a extra couple minutes they took as far as my nit picking little more time taken to deslag around the welds the adjust ability on the bracketry stuff like that just makes a cleaner appearance and higher quality product because of those things . Just a little FYI not starting a war.

G

Nice first post Mr. G. Do a little research - G2 is only ASSEMBLED in the USA - NOT made in the USA. There is a difference. If they really were made in the USA as their clever marketing has convinced you to believe, they would have it stamped all over everything that they make. Of course, they can't do that as it would be ILLEGAL to do. Ever wonder why a Currie Rock Jock 60 is about $900 more expensive than a G2 Rock Jock 60? If not, you should.

Having said that, here's a link to G2's website - funny, how I don't see a 60 listed let alone a mention of specs of any kind:
http://www.g2axle.com/axle-assembly/rear-dana-assembly.aspx

Of course, a quick search yielded a link to a listing they have on Quadratec and here's what its description says:

All new! Bolt-in RockJock high pinion 60 rearend for Jeep's. Package includes the complete housing featuring the new RockJock III ductile iron housing center (highest ground clearance 60 on the market), AR400 heat treated bottom skid plate allowing the axle to slide over rocks easily, 3" d.o.m. steel tubes, 1350 pinion yoke, and all new Currie Jeep suspension brackets. These housings are assembled using high quality G2 axle shafts, G2 Premium ring & pinion, timken bearings and gear ratio of your choice. These housings use Stock sized Set 10 Wheel Bearings.​

http://www.quadratec.com/products/52462_211X_PG.htm

Sure, you can get them with 35 spline shafts but, that's an upgrade and one that brings the cost closer to a Dynatrac Trail 60. As far as tube thickness goes, I don't know if you were using a metric to SAE conversion app to come up with your numbers but, I have yet to see where G2 rear tubes are ever advertised as being anything but 3". Just a little FYI not starting a war.

BTW, are you some kind of shop?

 

[g_dub]

Yeah been helping Justin and the crew out here and there this week. Going out this weekend with them to hit it up. Yep I got my 2 door things to come alot of custom fab going into it here soon. I got some 4 door sliders I want to build up for Justin I have designed.

I really enjoy the custom axle stuff. I have built everything from your average dana 30 to top alcohol dragster diffs and everything in between. I am in no way dissing dynatrac's stuff it's quality but their 60's oil baffling on the pinion is kind of different using a inner axle seal welded to a slinger behind the inner pinion race to keep the fluid up in the pinion bearings but it works!

There's so much stuff axle wise out for the JK's now. It's all in how big of check you want to write. would have loved to of built the rock jock my self just to see what all they did inside the housing for pinion bearing oil retention but my day will come soon enough. i think G2 has some great stuff coming out the Placer axle shafts being one of them 20 year warranty. I was really skeptical of their stuff after doing 1 set of the genuine gears and the issues they had. I have done a few sets of the g2's and not a single issue and dead quiet easy set up blah blah blah. But I will always be a yukon gear guy. I am not trying to sound like a advertisement for them I just have seen so much stuff in 20 years of Front end, under car, and axle work just nice to see a company that really stepped up to making high quality products.

I work for a local off road shop here in Boise by the way no way advertising for them or myself.

G

 

[g_dub]

Nice first post Mr. G. Do a little research - G2 is only ASSEMBLED in the USA - NOT made in the USA. There is a difference. If they really were made in the USA as their clever marketing has convinced you to believe, they would have it stamped all over everything that they make. Of course, they can't do that as it would be ILLEGAL to do.

Having said that, here's a link to G2's website - funny, how I don't see a 60 listed let alone a mention of specs of any kind:
http://www.g2axle.com/axle-assembly/rear-dana-assembly.aspx

Of course, a quick search yielded a link to a listing they have on Quadratec and here's what its description says:

All new! Bolt-in RockJock high pinion 60 rearend for Jeep's. Package includes the complete housing featuring the new RockJock III ductile iron housing center (highest ground clearance 60 on the market), AR400 heat treated bottom skid plate allowing the axle to slide over rocks easily, 3" d.o.m. steel tubes, 1350 pinion yoke, and all new Currie Jeep suspension brackets. These housings are assembled using high quality G2 axle shafts, G2 Premium ring & pinion, timken bearings and gear ratio of your choice. These housings use Stock sized Set 10 Wheel Bearings.​

http://www.quadratec.com/products/52462_211X_PG.htm

Sure, you can get them with 35 spline shafts but, that's an upgrade and one that brings the cost closer to a Dynatrac Trail 60. As far as tube thickness goes, I don't know if you were using a metric to SAE conversion app to come up with your numbers but, I have yet to see where G2 rear tubes are ever advertised as being anything but 3". Just a little FYI not starting a war.

BTW, are you some kind of shop?

I do a lot of research. I personally worked on turbine guys jeep Put the G2 RockJock in it took the axles out and swapped the brake brackets on it I know it's 35 spline. I know from the inner bore of the axle tube and the outer diameter it's 5/16ths wall. I also built his Pro Rock 44 from a pile of boxed parts and a bare housing. I work for a local off road shop here in Boise. Made in USA I haven't researched that. I know what I know as far as what I have laid my wrenches on. Ultimately no matter who's name or where it's built it's how much money do you want to spend. Bang for the Buck kind of thing I guess.

G

 

[wayoflife]

I do a lot of research. I personally worked on turbine guys jeep Put the G2 RockJock in it took the axles out and swapped the brake brackets on it I know it's 35 spline.

That's good to know that he elected to get upgraded shafts and I presume, a locker to go with it. That alone will make it a better axle than what comes standard.

I know from the inner bore of the axle tube and the outer diameter it's 5/16ths wall.

In other words, you're just guessing based on what you think you know. Again, I have yet to see a single piece of advertising or even product description from any vendor that states their axle tubes are anything more than 3". If anyone cares to prove me wrong, Google is your friend.

I work for a local off road shop here in Boise.

Well, I'm sorry to say that your account will now be suspended. Nothing personal but, vendors are not allowed to participate on my forum unless they are personal friends of mine.

Made in USA I haven't researched that.

Yeah, I figured as much and it's a shame that companies are allowed to market their products to the uninformed in this way.

I know what I know as far as what I have laid my wrenches on.

Too bad your wrenches can't tell you how thick a tube is.

 

[turbineguy]

Deleted duplicate post

 

[turbineguy]

G2 60's come standard with 35 spline axles. So that may be a part of the misunderstanding here, there was no upgrade costs. The only options I paid extra for were the Set 80 bearings and the ARB, which is included in my $700 cheaper reference. I don't know what sort of bearings come standard on the trail series.

3" DOM just refers to the outer diameter of the tubing, not the wall thickness. You can get 3" x 0.250" DOM or 3" x 0.375" DOM etc... So yes, Currie Axles can be 3" DOM with a 5/16th wall thickness. Reference http://www.arcelormittal.com/tubular/images/ArcelorMittal_DOMSpecs.pdf

Now assuming that G2 Axles are 3" x 5/16 and Dynatrac are 3 1/8" x 5/16, I thought it would be fun to see the relative strength differences, so I went to this handy online calculator: https://www.roguefab.com/calculator.php which allows me to calculate relative yield and ultimate strengths for different size tubing.

What I came up with was that using a 3 1/8" tubing vs 3" tubing yields a 10% greater increase in yield and ultimate strength.

Now if G2 axles are only 1/2" wall thickness, then its a 12% increase in yield and ultimate strength. Unfortunately, G2 is not clear on their specs online.

These numbers are based on the load, tube strength, and safety factors all being equal.

Yes, I got ARB's front and rear... I can't wait to try them out.

Some other points of that I think might be relevant... apparently Dynatrac presses in their tubes (per the website)... I am not sure if this is just marketing or an actual difference to the Currie Axles... I can see how this would definitely improve axle strength.

So here's what I came up with as far as differences between the two axles, based on a G2 with 35 spline axles, ARB, Set 80 bearings vs a Dynatrac Trail Series 60 with 35 spline, ARB, and unknown set bearings.

G2 vs Dynatrac
Cost: 3729 shipped vs 4085 + shipping = 4600 (per Quadratec website) = Difference $800 - Winner G2
Tube Strength 3x5/16 vs 3-1/8 x 5/16 = 10% increase Winner Dynatrac
Misc Imported/assembled USA vs Made/assembled USA = Winner Dynatrac
Bearings Set 80 vs Unknown = tentative winner with G2

I know this is all amateurish, but I am sitting in a hotel all day because the power plant I am inspecting had to run last night, so now its got to cool down before I can start again, and even though I am not an engineer, I do love math and excel.

Once again... so this is not a war... I would of bought Dynatrac ProRock 60 if I had the money to spend.... but given the comparison between spending money on upgrading my rear Sport Dana 44 vs buying a new G2, I am quite happy.

G_Dub does work at my local shop, who have gotten quite a bit of money from me this year, and he is a great guy and very helpful.

And since I know WayofLife likes road trips... consider a trip up to Idaho some day. I travel for a living, and I have never seen as many jeeps per capita as I have in Boise (yes, a lot are mall crawlers).... I would guess that the other mountain western states probably do come close, but I dont work in them. Southwest Idaho does have a fair bit of trails to wheel around. Google "two headed-dragon" and "meatgrinder"

I think I am going to email G2 and get some definitive Spec answers though.

Damn, I love thinking about jeeps.

Update: So I just called G2 to get my questions answered... straight from the horses mouth:

G2 axle tubes are 3" x 3/8" tubing per G2 Axles customer service.

The axles tubes are press fit in and then "rosebud" welded in. I am assuming this is the same as what Dynatrac does.

All G2 60 axles come with 35 spline standard.

Going back to my strength calculations... results are:

G2 axle tubes are 2% stronger than Dynatrac.


Disclaimer: This all from a pure amateurs calculations... it would be fun to get Dynatrac and G2/currie to chime in directly.

 

[Manvan]

I kinda have a problem with the made in the USA card being played. If we were to count on that, none of us would be driving jeeps, typing on our computers, talking on cb's or cell phones. You have no idea of the origin of the steels, hardware, bearings or the machinery used to produce these products. I remember ball bearings saying made in the USA only because the seals were manufactured here. I think what we have here are options to fit various needs and budgets. I hope the Dynatrac and G2 people take as much pride in what they make as we do in our professions

 

[wayoflife]

G2 60's come standard with 35 spline axles. So that may be a part of the misunderstanding here, there was no upgrade costs. The only options I paid extra for were the Set 80 bearings and the ARB, which is included in my $700 cheaper reference. I don't know what sort of bearings come standard on the trail series.

Set 80 bearings are big and strong but, I have yet to see a factory Dana 44 with Set 10 bearings have load bearing failures. Still, that would be a plus regardless of whether it's actually necessary or not to have.

3" DOM just refers to the outer diameter of the tubing, not the wall thickness. You can get 3" x 0.250" DOM or 3" x 0.375" DOM etc... So yes, Currie Axles can be 3" DOM with a 5/16th wall thickness.

Yes, they most certainly "can" be 3" DOM with 5/16" wall thickness but, at least the last time I checked, it was only 1/4" thick. Perhaps things have changed - I have yet to see the proof of this.

Now assuming that G2 Axles are 3" x 5/16 and Dynatrac are 3 1/8" x 5/16, I thought it would be fun to see the relative strength differences, so I went to this handy online calculator: https://www.roguefab.com/calculator.php which allows me to calculate relative yield and ultimate strengths for different size tubing.

What I came up with was that using a 3 1/8" tubing vs 3" tubing yields a 10% greater increase in yield and ultimate strength.

Assuming your numbers are correct, a 10% increase is a 10% increase and ultimately, tube bending is where I have been seeing the route of most failures on factory Dana 44 axles.

Now if G2 axles are only 1/2" wall thickness, then its a 12% increase in yield and ultimate strength. Unfortunately, G2 is not clear on their specs online.

I have never seen any evidence of G2's having anything other than 3" DOM with 0.25" thick tubes.

Some other points of that I think might be relevant... apparently Dynatrac presses in their tubes (per the website)... I am not sure if this is just marketing or an actual difference to the Currie Axles... I can see how this would definitely improve axle strength.

I have personally seen the tubes being pressed in and rosette welded for added strength at their facility in Huntington Beach, CA.

Once again... so this is not a war... I would of bought Dynatrac ProRock 60 if I had the money to spend.... but given the comparison between spending money on upgrading my rear Sport Dana 44 vs buying a new G2, I am quite happy.

And really, you being happy is all that matters. :yup:

And since I know WayofLife likes road trips... consider a trip up to Idaho some day. I travel for a living, and I have never seen as many jeeps per capita as I have in Boise (yes, a lot are mall crawlers).... I would guess that the other mountain western states probably do come close, but I dont work in them. Southwest Idaho does have a fair bit of trails to wheel around. Google "two headed-dragon" and "meatgrinder"

Oh yeah, you guys have some badass trails and I'll be sure to make my way up there sometime soon

Update: So I just called G2 to get my questions answered... straight from the horses mouth:

G2 axle tubes are 3" x 3/8" tubing per G2 Axles customer service.

The axles tubes are press fit in and then "rosebud" welded in. I am assuming this is the same as what Dynatrac does.

All G2 60 axles come with 35 spline standard.

Going back to my strength calculations... results are:

G2 axle tubes are 2% stronger than Dynatrac.

Assuming all that is true, I stand corrected. Compared to a Trail 60, the G2 would in theory be 2% stronger. I suppose I was still working off of obsolete information gathered when their axles were first being released. Still, aside from your word, I have yet to see any proof of this or even any advertisement of any kind to verify as much. Regardless, I will differ to my original comment of, "if it matters", Dynatrac is actually made in the USA.

 

[wayoflife]

I kinda have a problem with the made in the USA card being played. If we were to count on that, none of us would be driving jeeps, typing on our computers, talking on cb's or cell phones. You have no idea of the origin of the steels, hardware, bearings or the machinery used to produce these products. I remember ball bearings saying made in the USA only because the seals were manufactured here. I think what we have here are options to fit various needs and budgets. I hope the Dynatrac and G2 people take as much pride in what they make as we do in our professions

Like I said from the get go, "IF it matters..." Apparently, it doesn't to you.

 

[turbineguy]

Set 80 bearings are big and strong but, I have yet to see a factory Dana 44 with Set 10 bearings have load bearing failures. Still, that would be a plus regardless of whether it's actually necessary or not to have.



Yes, they most certainly "can" be 3" DOM with 5/16" wall thickness but, at least the last time I checked, it was only 1/4" thick. Perhaps things have changed - I have yet to see the proof of this.



Assuming your numbers are correct, a 10% increase is a 10% increase and ultimately, tube bending is where I have been seeing the route of most failures on factory Dana 44 axles.



I have never seen any evidence of G2's having anything other than 3" DOM with 0.25" thick tubes.



I have personally seen the tubes being pressed in and rosette welded for added strength at their facility in Huntington Beach, CA.



And really, you being happy is all that matters. :yup:



Oh yeah, you guys have some badass trails and I'll be sure to make my way up there sometime soon



Assuming all that is true, I stand corrected. Compared to a Trail 60, the G2 would in theory be 2% stronger. I suppose I was still working off of obsolete information gathered when their axles were first being released. Still, aside from your word, I have yet to see any proof of this or even any advertisement of any kind to verify as much. Regardless, I will differ to my original comment of, "if it matters", Dynatrac is actually made in the USA.

I now believe that I was mislead by G2. According to the Currie website http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/product.aspx?id=2996

The RockJock III has 0.3125 (3/8") x 3" DOM axle tubes.

 

[Spartan]

Eddie if you ever do make it up to Southern Idaho. Please post up when your going to be here. Would love to run some trails with you. I'll bring then Honey. Cheers!