Steering box adjustment

Mountainjk10 said:
There was a thread awhile back where Bubba from Exodus said he had all kinds of issues with Synergy ball joints. Said he had to replace some on customers jeeps. I think before I go the steering box route I might replace my ball joints.

P.S. my steering wheel does not go back to center when turning. 🤦*♂️


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Props to Bubba from Exodus. Got out from under a Jeep to take my call today. Gave me the low down on the synergy ball joints. He recommended contacting Carbon Off-road to see if they would warranty the ball joints and if possible upgrade to the synergy adjustable ones. Carbon Off-road is doing just that.
Carbon offered immediately to replace the ball joints, but recommended adjusting the castor first. With the 5 degrees built into the axle, they recommend the rack setting to be 7 degrees. A quick easy adjustment well worth trying before doing the ball joints.
Hopefully this will help. Again thanks for the suggestion to find Bubba's comment. Thanks to Bubba for taking time to chat.
 
Well I just got done reading this whole post and came out with more questions than answers. My first question would probably be as to define more in depth in what you consider to be "flighty/loose" on the steering? The reason I would ask this is first off you may be chasing a non-existent issue. Do you have any jeepers in your area that have similar builds as your that you could test drive each others rigs to compare handling on the same road? Assuming they handle differently and yours does in fact feel noticeably looser the next step of the process I would ask if you could post a picture of you current alignment readings, not tape measure specs. but an actual laser alignment reading. The alignment reading should narrow down where to start looking. Obviously there are a lot of possibilities with alignment being out, but the place I would focus on would be caster. If your ball joints were bad it would show up in the camber reading, and if they are bad one would assume that you would have slight D/W and not a loose steering due to bad ball joints. I also find it odd that they would suggest adding more caster seeing as your axle was built with the 5* caster, my understanding is that most after markets offer this option as to help with drive-line angles while retaining as close to near factory specs on caster for drive-ability concerns, this is why so many people sacrifice vehicle handling to get proper drive-line angles. So good caster reading should be good if it is in specs. So if this was my jeep or one in my shop I would start with getting a print out of all alignment readings. If alignment readings are good I would then remove the Hydro-assist and drive it, if removing the hydro-assist changes the feel of the steering it would most likely just be teaching yourself to adjust to driving with hydro-assist. But IMO I believe your issue will be in one of those two scenarios. Hope that is of some help.
 
POOJEEP said:
Well I just got done reading this whole post and came out with more questions than answers. My first question would probably be as to define more in depth in what you consider to be "flighty/loose" on the steering? The reason I would ask this is first off you may be chasing a non-existent issue. Do you have any jeepers in your area that have similar builds as your that you could test drive each others rigs to compare handling on the same road? Assuming they handle differently and yours does in fact feel noticeably looser the next step of the process I would ask if you could post a picture of you current alignment readings, not tape measure specs. but an actual laser alignment reading. The alignment reading should narrow down where to start looking. Obviously there are a lot of possibilities with alignment being out, but the place I would focus on would be caster. If your ball joints were bad it would show up in the camber reading, and if they are bad one would assume that you would have slight D/W and not a loose steering due to bad ball joints. I also find it odd that they would suggest adding more caster seeing as your axle was built with the 5* caster, my understanding is that most after markets offer this option as to help with drive-line angles while retaining as close to near factory specs on caster for drive-ability concerns, this is why so many people sacrifice vehicle handling to get proper drive-line angles. So good caster reading should be good if it is in specs. So if this was my jeep or one in my shop I would start with getting a print out of all alignment readings. If alignment readings are good I would then remove the Hydro-assist and drive it, if removing the hydro-assist changes the feel of the steering it would most likely just be teaching yourself to adjust to driving with hydro-assist. But IMO I believe your issue will be in one of those two scenarios. Hope that is of some help.
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I had a beyond bad balljoint in my old 1500 dodge and it didn’t have death wobble.
Also a bad balljoint May not show up on camber. It could be bad in that it’s moving around as the vehicle drives, but not so bad that it sits sideways. That’s what happened to my JK. I think removing the hydro assist is the last thing I would try.


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RockinAZJK said:
I had a beyond bad balljoint in my old 1500 dodge and it didn’t have death wobble.
Also a bad balljoint May not show up on camber. It could be bad in that it’s moving around as the vehicle drives, but not so bad that it sits sideways. That’s what happened to my JK. I think removing the hydro assist is the last thing I would try.


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I appreciate your ideas. I apologise, I don't have hydro assist, but was thinking of adding it. Been too busy to get the Jeep in on the rack. But my buddy who's is almost identical to mine drives like a dream.
 
RockinAZJK said:
I had a beyond bad balljoint in my old 1500 dodge and it didn’t have death wobble.
Also a bad balljoint May not show up on camber. It could be bad in that it’s moving around as the vehicle drives, but not so bad that it sits sideways. That’s what happened to my JK. I think removing the hydro assist is the last thing I would try.


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True a single bad balljoint will not always cause death wobble, but if it is bad, it is typically going to transfer some type of motion somewhere. I have yet to have any vehicle come across our alignment rack with a bad balljoint that was not shown by the camber readout. There have been times that during checking over the vehicle it may not have been enough for the tech to catch or in some cases (typically solid axle dodge trucks) there is play but still within manufacturers specs and the camber will show it. Just my experience though

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krdadlamb said:
I appreciate your ideas. I apologise, I don't have hydro assist, but was thinking of adding it. Been too busy to get the Jeep in on the rack. But my buddy who's is almost identical to mine drives like a dream.
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Sorry I must have read it incorrectly in previous replies, I thought you said you already had hydro. I highly recommend resolving the problem before adding hydro, hydro will hide the effects quite well, but the effects will still be happening to the rest of the drivetrain. Which is why I recommended removing the hydro or a steering stabilizer, to verify the issue is fixed properly before installing the hydro. Out of curiosity your buddy with a similar setup, what is different between the two jeeps? Also when you get time to have it put on an alignment rack, I would venture to compare your alignment specs to your buddies if the builds are similar. Definitely keep us informed, my curiosity gets the better of me lol

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POOJEEP said:
Sorry I must have read it incorrectly in previous replies, I thought you said you already had hydro. I highly recommend resolving the problem before adding hydro, hydro will hide the effects quite well, but the effects will still be happening to the rest of the drivetrain. Which is why I recommended removing the hydro or a steering stabilizer, to verify the issue is fixed properly before installing the hydro. Out of curiosity your buddy with a similar setup, what is different between the two jeeps? Also when you get time to have it put on an alignment rack, I would venture to compare your alignment specs to your buddies if the builds are similar. Definitely keep us informed, my curiosity gets the better of me lol

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Thanks again.
Since my buddy is the owner of the shop, the plan is to put his on the rack first, to maybe get a baseline, then do mine. It's just about getting the time to do it after he closes the shop.
We both have 3.5" lift and 37s. Different brands of lift and tires. His is a Rubicon with stock D44, mine has the Carbon Off-road D44. The draglink, track bar, and tie rod are the same on both.
I have to admit I'm confused by Carbon recommending we increase the castor to 7 first, but are willing to warranty the ball joints if that ends up being the issue.
And as a reminder, the steering has never been stable since the first lift and tires were put on. The reason for originally thinking it may be the steering box. Nothing really changed with the current lift and tires, but got dramatically worse a couple months later when the axle was finally installed. I've taken the steering stabilizer off and noticed no change.
So to recap:
Steering hasn't been ideal since first lift.
Several changes to suspension later with varying degrees of improvement
Significantly worse now
Known problems with synergy ball joints

Once we get it on the rack, I'll be sure to report back.
 
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