Should We Ban Electric Off-Road Vehicles

[TahoeBen]

This is a tragedy to hear about, and condolences to the family and friends involved.

Tesla Model S crashes in Texas, leaving two dead and sparking a blaze that lasts hours

A Tesla car crash in Texas left two people dead and sparked a fire that took hours to put out, according to local news reports.

www.usatoday.com

Now, imagine the Magneto, Jeep’s all electric concept Wrangler, dropping off a ledge too hard and compressing a 200lb battery pack, or rolling down Potato Salad in Moab, or any number of flops or normal accidents that can occur in the backcountry. A simple fender bender could easily turn into a catastrophic forest fire. This Texas incident took 4 hours and 23,000 gallons of water to control.

If Jeeps, Hummers, CyberTrucks etc start exploding in the mountains these fires will bankrupt FCA, Tesla, or GM. See what’s happening to PG&E and their liability for power grid failures and negligent deaths. Full disclosure, I am biased since I own a home under constant fire danger and the Rubicon empties out into the Tahoe basin. I selfishly don’t want to evacuate or lose my home.

As part of the off-roading community, we should petition El Dorado, Placer County in ca, Grand County in Utah, (and the list goes on) to ban the use of electric vehicles off road.

You are driving a lithium chemical bomb into a remote tinderbox facing historic drought.

 

[OverlanderJK]

I mean there are six million all electric cars on the road or close to it and this is the first crash like this. 1 in six million is pretty good odds. You probably have a higher likelihood of getting bit by a shark and getting struck by lightning in the same day than dying from this.

 

[Sharkey]

I’ve personally watched a Dino fuel rig burn to the ground off road and torch most everything around it. Fires suck...doesn’t really matter to me what kind.

 

[TahoeBen]

I mean there are six million all electric cars on the road or close to it and this is the first crash like this. 1 in six million is pretty good odds. You probably have a higher likelihood of getting bit by a shark and getting struck by lightning in the same day than dying from this.

Hardly the first, considering the article cites two similar incidents in 2016 and 2019, but I’ll agree the danger is low. They aren’t simply all going to randomly explode.
However, off-roading will introduce the vehicles to stressors not found in normal wear and tear and therefore I assume the likelihood of failure would be higher.

Think this but with a few hundred pounds of lithium attached

 

[WJCO]

You can't just ban everything to fix a problem. Sure safety standards can be addressed differently but I don't see these cars going away anytime soon.

 

[OverlanderJK]

Hardly the first, considering the article cites two similar incidents in 2016 and 2019, but I’ll agree the danger is low. They aren’t simply all going to randomly explode.
However, off-roading will introduce the vehicles to stressors not found in normal wear and tear and therefore I assume the likelihood of failure would be higher.

Think this but with a few hundred pounds of lithium attached

Okay, again, how many roll overs like that happen versus how many vehicles go offroad. The numbers are tiny. If it were that big of an issue less manufacturers would be going electric, not more. And with every new car produced, things get better not worse. I’m not ready to live in a bubble secluding from everything yet, maybe some others are.

 

[TahoeBen]

Perhaps “Ban” is too strict of an idea. Maybe have a trail rating system with restrictions on vehicle type? Or perhaps it’s a new market with room for an innovative fire suppression system idea that reduces the risk.
Either way, i feel we should take the topic into consideration and have some discussion on it. Start small and word might spread to those who have the resources to implement solutions.

 

[FFPulley77]

I’d also like to point out that neither of these geniuses were in the driver’s seat at the time of the crash. They weren’t using the vehicle as intended.
I’ve put out electric, gas, diesel and CNG vehicle fires. They all suck no matter the source.
I’d imagine on trail, it wouldn’t matter how much water it would take to put it out, because you won’t have any water out there to do it.

 

[OverlanderJK]

I’d also like to point out that neither of these geniuses were in the driver’s seat at the time of the crash. They weren’t using the vehicle as intended.
I’ve put out electric, gas, diesel and CNG vehicle fires. They all suck no matter the source.
I’d imagine on trail, it wouldn’t matter how much water it would take to put it out, because you won’t have any water out there to do it.

we’re they not? I wondered about that being it said two people but both in the back seat. Made me question things.

 

[TahoeBen]

You can't just ban everything to fix a problem. Sure safety standards can be addressed differently but I don't see these cars going away anytime soon.

I’m not against the cars, just the area of operation. I view it along the lines of requiring a spark arrestor but I’m sure there are plenty of people that complain about that regulation too. It’s dumb to park a hot car in tall dry grass, but if there’s a law prohibiting it people will complain about government restrictions.

I do think it’s completely bullsh*t to say they are “green” or “clean” vehicles. Lithium mining is equally hazardous to the environment plus they use petrochemicals in the manufacturing process and charge them using mainly fossil fuels. But that’s a different argument for another thread

 

[FFPulley77]

we’re they not? I wondered about that being it said two people but both in the back seat. Made me question things.

I saw it on the local news this morning, they said one was in front passenger seat one was in rear.

 

[OverlanderJK]

I saw it on the local news this morning, they said one was in front passenger seat one was in rear.

Lol dumb but on the flip side, how awesome a time to be able to drive down the road with nobody in the driver seat. I guess it was awesome for a short time until the died but cool nonetheless.

 

[FFPulley77]

Lol dumb but on the flip side, how awesome a time to be able to drive down the road with nobody in the driver seat. I guess it was awesome for a short time until the died but cool nonetheless.

Living in the Jetson’s age... cars just aren’t flying. Yet.

 

[Sharkey]

Be careful, that rating system might be used to keep JK’s off the trail. I bet the incident of fire is probably bigger for JK’s than for EV’s.

But I get your point. If the manufacturers are going to sell for off road use, they need to prepare accordingly

 

[TahoeBen]

They weren’t using the vehicle as intended.

You probably didn’t mean to, but this highlights my concern. Does Jeep intend for their batteries to be subjected to harsh off-road conditions? Are the batteries tested for repeated jarring, bumping, dust and water exposure?

I did some brief reading on lithium batteries and chemical fires. I like the idea of a built in fire suppression system.

I think it’s entirely plausible the bodies were found in said locations but they may have been trying to escape the vehicle. The technology is amazing though.

 

[TahoeBen]

Be careful, that rating system might be used to keep JK’s off the trail.

Noooo!

 

[JK_0311]

Should we ban utility lines then since have caused fires or at least their transmission to rural areas? I find it a little silly to say let’s ban EV vehicles off-road due to the batteries and how hard it is to put them out. If a Jeep were to catch fire and the cause a serious forest fire, is it not the same issue? Heck, it’s gets so hot / dry in AZ that driving over some high grass will cause a fire. Should we ban off-roading to seasons now?

 

[FFPulley77]

Does Jeep intend for their batteries to be subjected to harsh off-road conditions? Are the batteries tested for repeated jarring, bumping, dust and water exposure?

That’s like asking, does Jeep intend for the 3.8L minivan engine to be subjected to harsh off-road conditions? Was the 3.6L Pentastar tested for repeated jarring, bumping, dust and water exposure?

I’m pretty sure they’ll test whatever they put into production however they see fit.
What about the new JL with it’s multiple batteries? The what-if’s are endless.

 

[TahoeBen]

Should we ban utility lines then since have caused fires or at least their transmission to rural areas? I find it a little silly to say let’s ban EV vehicles off-road due to the batteries and how hard it is to put them out. If a Jeep were to catch fire and the cause a serious forest fire, is it not the same issue? Heck, it’s gets so hot / dry in AZ that driving over some high grass will cause a fire. Should we ban off-roading to seasons now?

That day is already here. California shut down last August or September because of the forest fire danger.

banning utility lines is harsh since we’ve decided as a society that electricity is important for modern survival, but they do present a massive danger. I’m not an electrical engineer, but it seems like there should be a different way of insulating the wires or something to prevent arcing.

 

[TahoeBen]

does Jeep intend for the 3.8L minivan engine to be subjected to harsh off-road conditions? Was the 3.6L Pentastar tested for repeated jarring, bumping, dust and water exposure?

According to their marketing material, yes they intended for this. They put trail rated badges on their jeeps and named the high end model after the Rubicon Trail. Let’s see if they do the same with battery packs. Maybe the FCA engineers will develop a safer system for all the electric vehicles