Recent Shooting and Discussion

Brute

Brute

Hooked
I know what I am about to say is going to be unpopular here...but serious discussion needs to be started about how to make it more difficult to acquire certain types of firearms...

A 19 yo cannot buy a beer, but can purchase an AR platform weapon...

It takes far more paperwork, time and scrutiny to get a loan, buy a car or home...but about 20 minutes to get an AR-15...

I grew up in a hunting and fishing culture...my dad was a police officer, and previously was in the Army. I grew up around hunting rifles and shotguns...50 years ago, no one hunted deer with semi-auto's...pop's had a .270 Weatherby Magnum and a .243 Mannlicher-Schonauer...I owned a Springfield .30-06 (same one carried into battle in WWI...and shot damn straight!)...and we both had a brace of different types of shotguns.

I am definitely against banning private ownership of weapons...but perhaps we may need to revisit the process in which we acquire them...times are certainly far different than when I was young...

They say if you keep doing the exact same thing over and over again, but expect a different result...this would be the definition of insanity. For the sake of our children, and our children's children, we need to start the discussion to make it more difficult for these events to keep happening...because what we are doing right now is clearly not working...

My two cents...


This thread was originally here: https://wayalife.com/showthread.php/51935-Prayers-for-the-17-kids-killed-today!!
 
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Brute said:
I know what I am about to say is going to be unpopular here...but serious discussion needs to be started about how to make it more difficult to acquire certain types of firearms...

A 19 yo cannot buy a beer, but can purchase an AR platform weapon...

It takes far more paperwork, time and scrutiny to get a loan, buy a car or home...but about 20 minutes to get an AR-15...

I grew up in a hunting and fishing culture...my dad was a police officer, and previously was in the Army. I grew up around hunting rifles and shotguns...50 years ago, no one hunted deer with semi-auto's...pop's had a .270 Weatherby Magnum and a .243 Mannlicher-Schonauer...I owned a Springfield .30-06 (same one carried into battle in WWI...and shot damn straight!)...and we both had a brace of different types of shotguns.

I am definitely against banning private ownership of weapons...but perhaps we may need to revisit the process in which we acquire them...times are certainly far different than when I was young...

They say if you keep doing the exact same thing over and over again, but expect a different result...this would be the definition of insanity. For the sake of our children, and our children's children, we need to start the discussion to make it more difficult for these events to keep happening...because what we are doing right now is clearly not working...

My two cents...
Click to expand...

Agreed.


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Brute said:
I know what I am about to say is going to be unpopular here...but serious discussion needs to be started about how to make it more difficult to acquire certain types of firearms...

A 19 yo cannot buy a beer, but can purchase an AR platform weapon...

It takes far more paperwork, time and scrutiny to get a loan, buy a car or home...but about 20 minutes to get an AR-15...

I grew up in a hunting and fishing culture...my dad was a police officer, and previously was in the Army. I grew up around hunting rifles and shotguns...50 years ago, no one hunted deer with semi-auto's...pop's had a .270 Weatherby Magnum and a .243 Mannlicher-Schonauer...I owned a Springfield .30-06 (same one carried into battle in WWI...and shot damn straight!)...and we both had a brace of different types of shotguns.

I am definitely against banning private ownership of weapons...but perhaps we may need to revisit the process in which we acquire them...times are certainly far different than when I was young...

They say if you keep doing the exact same thing over and over again, but expect a different result...this would be the definition of insanity. For the sake of our children, and our children's children, we need to start the discussion to make it more difficult for these events to keep happening...because what we are doing right now is clearly not working...

My two cents...
Click to expand...

Ed, I see what you're saying and have a lot of respect for you. But at the same time, think about the number of young 19 year olds that are responsible gun owners. Should they be punished as well? I am deeply saddened about what happened, but I think we all know what happens when it gun rights are infringed upon everybody as a whole. The gun isn't the problem, the individual was the problem. And obviously that opens up a whole nother conversation of who gets to decide what is 'mentally ill' or 'depressed' or 'likely to kill.' I don't think making guns more 'difficult' to get would stop this tragedy. Look at crime in Mexico where guns and ammo are illegal. Evil people will stop at nothing to do evil things.
 
WJCO said:
Ed, I see what you're saying and have a lot of respect for you. But at the same time, think about the number of young 19 year olds that are responsible gun owners. Should they be punished as well? I am deeply saddened about what happened, but I think we all know what happens when it gun rights are infringed upon everybody as a whole. The gun isn't the problem, the individual was the problem. And obviously that opens up a whole nother conversation of who gets to decide what is 'mentally ill' or 'depressed' or 'likely to kill.' I don't think making guns more 'difficult' to get would stop this tragedy. Look at crime in Mexico where guns and ammo are illegal. Evil people will stop at nothing to do evil things.
Click to expand...
Agreed on all points.
 
I agree. There are thousands more 19 year old gun owners who are responsible, than those few crazies, shooting people.

I'm resisting the urge to site drunk driving statics and make some ridiculous comment about how we should make it more difficult to buy alcohol or cars.
 
Prayers for the 17 kids killed today!

I have to respectfully disagree with you as well Brute. If it wasn’t an AR it would be something else.... doesn’t matter. Guns have been readily available for 100 + years.... But in the last few decades, attitudes toward discipling kids has taken a wrong turn. This country has been brewing a dangerous cocktail of political correctness, prescription medication, & violent entertainment..... Combine that with a lack of Core Values and participation awards and you get what we have here today. The first line of defense is in the Home.
 
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TrailHunter said:
I have to respectfully disagree with you as well Brute. If it wasn’t an AR it would be something else.... doesn’t matter. Guns have been readily available for 100 + years.... But in the last few decades, attitudes toward discipling kids has takin a wrong turn. This country has been brewing a dangerous cocktail of political correctness, prescription medication, & violent entertainment..... Combine that with a lack of Core Values and participation awards and you get what we have here today. The first line of defense is in the Home.
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Excellent point of view Trailhunter, my thoughts as well. My kids were taught at an early age fire arm safety, and were not raised to think within the PC culture.


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WJCO said:
Ed, I see what you're saying and have a lot of respect for you. But at the same time, think about the number of young 19 year olds that are responsible gun owners. Should they be punished as well? I am deeply saddened about what happened, but I think we all know what happens when it gun rights are infringed upon everybody as a whole. The gun isn't the problem, the individual was the problem. And obviously that opens up a whole nother conversation of who gets to decide what is 'mentally ill' or 'depressed' or 'likely to kill.' I don't think making guns more 'difficult' to get would stop this tragedy. Look at crime in Mexico where guns and ammo are illegal. Evil people will stop at nothing to do evil things.
Click to expand...

While I agree in principle in what you're saying, my point is that we need to do SOMETHING ELSE. What continues to happen is that there is the far left that wants to take ALL guns away...and point to events like these. The far right wants to keep the status quo...and point to the instances when an individual prevented a home intrusion or robbery because they had a firearm. At some point, both sides need to have meaningful conversation to find common ground to help LIMIT these catastrophic events from becoming common place. We are not going to prevent all of these things from occurring...that will simply not happen...we can not prevent mental illness., or the cruel intentions of bad people. But if we can have an impact on limiting the frequency of these events from happening, we should do so.

I do not want to punish the responsible 19 yo...I do not want to punish anyone. Unfortunately, our world is what it is...and a far different one than the one I grew up in. I remember a time when I could bring a soft cooler of food and bloody mary mix onto a plane...didn't have to take off my shoes, jacket or belt...but those days are no long gone...we have to adjust certain freedoms and liberties for the safety and good of all, and have learned to live with them.

I certainly don't have the answers...but I am willing to listen to cogent dialogue from all sides to come to a reasonable course of action that may help save the lives of children...or otherwise they may someday be our children.
 
Brute said:
While I agree in principle in what you're saying, my point is that we need to do SOMETHING ELSE. What continues to happen is that there is the far left that wants to take ALL guns away...and point to events like these. The far right wants to keep the status quo...and point to the instances when an individual prevented a home intrusion or robbery because they had a firearm. At some point, both sides need to have meaningful conversation to find common ground to help LIMIT these catastrophic events from becoming common place. We are not going to prevent all of these things from occurring...that will simply not happen...we can not prevent mental illness., or the cruel intentions of bad people. But if we can have an impact on limiting the frequency of these events from happening, we should do so.

I do not want to punish the responsible 19 yo...I do not want to punish anyone. Unfortunately, our world is what it is...and a far different one than the one I grew up in. I remember a time when I could bring a soft cooler of food and bloody mary mix onto a plane...didn't have to take off my shoes, jacket or belt...but those days are no long gone...we have to adjust certain freedoms and liberties for the safety and good of all, and have learned to live with them.

I certainly don't have the answers...but I am willing to listen to cogent dialogue from all sides to come to a reasonable course of action that may help save the lives of children...or otherwise they may someday be our children.
Click to expand...

I get where you're coming from, and tragedies like these make our emotional nature want to legislate it so that it doesn't happen again. But morality can't be legislated nor does it really do any good IMO. When morality is good, the laws will naturally follow because people are moral. Ben Franklin was supposedly the one who said this: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Damn good statement IMO. But yes, I agree, times have changed and the younger generation is much less caring about others IMO. As much as I would love to see a compromise between the two parties, I know it will not better our security. Truthfully we shouldn't even have two parties, we should have ONE party: AMERICA.

:usa:
 
Brute said:
While I agree in principle in what you're saying, my point is that we need to do SOMETHING ELSE. What continues to happen is that there is the far left that wants to take ALL guns away...and point to events like these. The far right wants to keep the status quo...and point to the instances when an individual prevented a home intrusion or robbery because they had a firearm. At some point, both sides need to have meaningful conversation to find common ground to help LIMIT these catastrophic events from becoming common place. We are not going to prevent all of these things from occurring...that will simply not happen...we can not prevent mental illness., or the cruel intentions of bad people. But if we can have an impact on limiting the frequency of these events from happening, we should do so.

I do not want to punish the responsible 19 yo...I do not want to punish anyone. Unfortunately, our world is what it is...and a far different one than the one I grew up in. I remember a time when I could bring a soft cooler of food and bloody mary mix onto a plane...didn't have to take off my shoes, jacket or belt...but those days are no long gone...we have to adjust certain freedoms and liberties for the safety and good of all, and have learned to live with them.

I certainly don't have the answers...but I am willing to listen to cogent dialogue from all sides to come to a reasonable course of action that may help save the lives of children...or otherwise they may someday be our children.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed with you. If nothing is done and if the far left in the future gets to control congress we can say goodbye to our guns. Welcome to Mexico.
 
Screw the gun control arguments, and the mental health arguments. Let’s get down to an issue never talked about. How in the hell does a 19 year old man walk into a school with a long gun unnoticed? Why doesn’t anyone want to lock our schools down for our own kids safety and well being? My kids school locks the doors and you have to ring a bell to get in, but every time I walk up they let me right in. Ban AR rifles isn’t going to stop this from happening. Sandy Hook was handguns. It’s time to make our schools safe, and that starts with security measures at school.


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The real problem is trying to find an answer that doesn't impact the rights of law abiding citizens and still able to target those that may do harm.

Until you can do that, sadly the status quo has to be.

I'm open to discussion that addresses the problem and not the tool.
 
kscobra said:
Screw the gun control arguments, and the mental health arguments. Let’s get down to an issue never talked about. How in the hell does a 19 year old man walk into a school with a long gun unnoticed? Why doesn’t anyone want to lock our schools down for our own kids safety and well being? My kids school locks the doors and you have to ring a bell to get in, but every time I walk up they let me right in. Ban AR rifles isn’t going to stop this from happening. Sandy Hook was handguns. It’s time to make our schools safe, and that starts with security measures at school.


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Click to expand...

^^^ This. Very Valid Point. I’ve Been saying this since Columbine.
 
kscobra said:
I don’t get why people don’t want to start here, what is a child’s life worth. I just don’t get it. Let’s make them safe, then we can worry about how to make these tragedies go away forever.



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Click to expand...

100% Agree!! Common Sense to me. But Common Sense doesn’t come first in politics. Money does.
 
FallonJeeper said:
The real problem is trying to find an answer that doesn't impact the rights of law abiding citizens and still able to target those that may do harm.

Until you can do that, sadly the status quo has to be.

I'm open to discussion that addresses the problem and not the tool.
Click to expand...

If you really care about your right to bear arms, you need to be involved in the discussion in finding solutions...legislation is like a pendulum...there are core passionate groups that are polarized on opposite sides of the pendulum, and a largely unapathetic group in the middle...when the middle group , sitting on the fence becomes energized to respond one way or the the other, they swing the pendulum...by voting in people to enact legislation.

Some think that the tool is not the problem...some think that is is...it's not that black and white. You might find that the tool may be just a part of the problem...
 
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In stead of cops sitting around at speed traps they should be waiting for a real call at the local school parking lot. At least then someone will be there shooting back. I think the deterrent of a good guy with a gun would stop most of the school shootings.


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