King of the Hammers - May 24-25

My mistake. I remember him riding shotgun in the Evo TJ at KOH so I assumed he worked on the vehicle.

You remembered correctly sir ;) The TJ is Mel's, I have ridden in it, I have turned wrenches on it, I am simply one of the crew.....and of course in the case of a podium finish, we fully expected for other racers to challenge the design by throwing the rule book in front of Mel's suspension design. That's also part of racing, no one likes getting beat, not everyone is a gracious loser. One of the best parts about being associated with the Discount Tire/Off Road Evolution race team, everyone is having a blast, everyone is a volunteer, everyone shares equal parts of the loss and wins

Also, here are some factory produced examples of what Mel replicated using a little ingenuity. Imagine that, stock "spring over shock" designs, please feel free to share with anyone who is still questioning what the TJ is running.
 

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Moded

Moded.

Urban Dictionary defines this as:

This word is most appropriately used when someone is proven wrong in an embarrassing manner. It is not simply a matter of making a mistake, or being embarrassed, but is most properly used when someone has vehemently defended a position and been proven wrong.

Sorry, just couldn't help myself.
 
Moded.

Urban Dictionary defines this as:

This word is most appropriately used when someone is proven wrong in an embarrassing manner. It is not simply a matter of making a mistake, or being embarrassed, but is most properly used when someone has vehemently defended a position and been proven wrong.

Sorry, just couldn't help myself.

It's that moded or modded?
 
Again, nobody was questioning the spring over shock design. They were questioning the dual spring setup which is clearly against the rules. And you've already said that you guys are going to change that, so I don't know what we're arguing about.
 
for those interested here's the stock class rules.

6.3.9 SUSPENSION
6.3.9.1 Wheelbase must remain within 3" of stock, as originally manufactured.
6.3.9.2 Suspension configuration must remain stock, as originally manufactured (meaning that leaf springs must remain leaf springs, coil springs must remain as coil springs, torsion-bars must remain as torsion-bars, etc.).
6.3.9.2.1 Leaf springs may be replaced with any leaf springs and may be installed in any location and orientation, with the following limitations and exceptions: Leaf springs must be connected directly to the axle assembly, unless otherwise factory-equipped. Links/linkage may be installed, but the leaf springs must be capable of locating the axle assembly relative to the chassis in any direction without the use of any such links/linkage. As such, quarter-elliptical springs, transverse leaf springs, and the use of double-shackles (at the forward and rear leaf spring mounting points at the chassis) are not permitted, unless factory-equipped.
6.3.9.2.2 Coil-springs and related suspension linkage may be modified or eliminated and replaced with any coil-springs and linkage, and may be installed in any location and orientation, with the following limitations and exceptions: Coil-springs must be connected directly to the axle assembly and chassis and shall not be mounted in any way so as to yield any type of mechanical advantage, unless factory-equipped. Coil-springs shall not be replaced with any type of coil-over shocks, unless factory-equipped (if so-equipped, factory coil-over shocks may be replaced with aftermarket coil-over shocks).
6.3.9.2.3 Secondary suspension is not permitted, unless factory-equipped (secondary suspension is considered to be any means or method of supporting any portion of a vehicle's weight and/or affecting the primary spring-rate at any time). As such, springs of all types, airbags, air-shocks and air/nitrogen-charged hydraulic bump stops are not permitted. Compressible bump stops made of rubber, foam, or other similar materials are permitted, with the following limitations and exceptions: Bump stops shall not have any affect whatsoever on any aspect of a vehicle's performance outside of the last 2" of vertical wheel-travel (on compression).
6.3.9.3 Shock absorbers of any make/model/type are permitted and may be installed in any location and orientation, with the following limitations and exceptions: Only one shock absorber is permitted per wheel/tire (not including spare tires). Shock absorbers shall not be larger than 2.65" in diameter (outer diameter of shock-body) and shall not be capable of any more than 14" stroke. Position-sensitive shocks (including bypass shocks of all types) are not permitted. Shock absorbers must be connected directly to the axle assembly and chassis and shall not be mounted in any way so as to yield any type of mechanical advantage, unless factory-equipped (mounting shock absorbers off-vertical is permitted and shall not be considered a mechanical advantage).
6.3.9.4 Manual suspension controls (e.g. forced hydraulics) are not permitted.
6.3.10 WHEELS
 
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Again, nobody was questioning the spring over shock design. They were questioning the dual spring setup which is clearly against the rules. And you've already said that you guys are going to change that, so I don't know what we're arguing about.

Where is it "clearly" against the rules?
 
:cheesy: LOL!! Just found enough time to catch up on this thread and boy, what a fun read it turned out to be. :crazyeyes:
 
Moded.

Urban Dictionary defines this as:

This word is most appropriately used when someone is proven wrong in an embarrassing manner. It is not simply a matter of making a mistake, or being embarrassed, but is most properly used when someone has vehemently defended a position and been proven wrong.

Sorry, just couldn't help myself.

Saying from the 80's. You got moded!

Like... Oh, you just got Burned!!!

Dang, you really got everyone of us there :thinking: not even sure who your "burn" was directed at?


Again, nobody was questioning the spring over shock design. They were questioning the dual spring setup which is clearly against the rules. And you've already said that you guys are going to change that, so I don't know what we're arguing about.

No one is arguing.


I guess all the Monday morning quarterbacks are chiming in with how it all went down
 
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ya, guessing just wanting to show pics of a cool event always ends up being a nightmare... rules / bad press / role cages / tire plugs / bla bla bla.....:D:D:D

all i know is i had i great time!!!

andrew -
 
for those interested here's the stock class rules.

6.3.9 SUSPENSION
6.3.9.1 Wheelbase must remain within 3" of stock, as originally manufactured.
6.3.9.2 Suspension configuration must remain stock, as originally manufactured (meaning that leaf springs must remain leaf springs, coil springs must remain as coil springs, torsion-bars must remain as torsion-bars, etc.).
6.3.9.2.1 Leaf springs may be replaced with any leaf springs and may be installed in any location and orientation, with the following limitations and exceptions: Leaf springs must be connected directly to the axle assembly, unless otherwise factory-equipped. Links/linkage may be installed, but the leaf springs must be capable of locating the axle assembly relative to the chassis in any direction without the use of any such links/linkage. As such, quarter-elliptical springs, transverse leaf springs, and the use of double-shackles (at the forward and rear leaf spring mounting points at the chassis) are not permitted, unless factory-equipped.
6.3.9.2.2 Coil-springs and related suspension linkage may be modified or eliminated and replaced with any coil-springs and linkage, and may be installed in any location and orientation, with the following limitations and exceptions: Coil-springs must be connected directly to the axle assembly and chassis and shall not be mounted in any way so as to yield any type of mechanical advantage, unless factory-equipped. Coil-springs shall not be replaced with any type of coil-over shocks, unless factory-equipped (if so-equipped, factory coil-over shocks may be replaced with aftermarket coil-over shocks).
6.3.9.2.3 Secondary suspension is not permitted, unless factory-equipped (secondary suspension is considered to be any means or method of supporting any portion of a vehicle's weight and/or affecting the primary spring-rate at any time). As such, springs of all types, airbags, air-shocks and air/nitrogen-charged hydraulic bump stops are not permitted. Compressible bump stops made of rubber, foam, or other similar materials are permitted, with the following limitations and exceptions: Bump stops shall not have any affect whatsoever on any aspect of a vehicle's performance outside of the last 2" of vertical wheel-travel (on compression).
6.3.9.3 Shock absorbers of any make/model/type are permitted and may be installed in any location and orientation, with the following limitations and exceptions: Only one shock absorber is permitted per wheel/tire (not including spare tires). Shock absorbers shall not be larger than 2.65" in diameter (outer diameter of shock-body) and shall not be capable of any more than 14" stroke. Position-sensitive shocks (including bypass shocks of all types) are not permitted. Shock absorbers must be connected directly to the axle assembly and chassis and shall not be mounted in any way so as to yield any type of mechanical advantage, unless factory-equipped (mounting shock absorbers off-vertical is permitted and shall not be considered a mechanical advantage).
6.3.9.4 Manual suspension controls (e.g. forced hydraulics) are not permitted.
6.3.10 WHEELS


Holy shit, there are rules...in an actual rule book! Someone get Mel on this thread NOW! Hell, send him a copy of this important document, in fact rtguy1 just show him this when you take your 2 door back into the shop for work. :cheesy:
 
My guess is that they were arguing that it violates 6.3.9.2.3, (Secondary suspension that changes the effective spring rates). But to be perfectly honest, it doesn't bother me one bit. I like to see stuff like this. Someone came up with a great idea and had a very effective implementation. Those that can't stand on the merit of their own development and skill will complain that it's not fair and use it as a chance to steal the position or punish the winner, but will be the first to copy the implementation if it is allowed to stand.

In addition to entertainment, racing is supposed to be (at least partially) development of new technologies and methods that in the long run will benefit us all. I'd say this fits the bill pretty well.
 
This...

Those that can't stand on the merit of their own development and skill will complain that it's not fair and use it as a chance to steal the position or punish the winner, but will be the first to copy the implementation if it is allowed to stand.

and this...

In addition to entertainment, racing is supposed to be (at least partially) development of new technologies and methods that in the long run will benefit us all. I'd say this fits the bill pretty well.

Couldn't have said it better.
 
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