JL Diesel, AdBlue/DEF, and the Apocalypse

The DEF is a pain in the ass. A buddies 2011 Duramax gave him problems until he deleted everything. He had it in the dealer for any and all emissions crap. He deleted it and hasn't had a problem since. The Fords at work are constantly causing problems.

Between the emissions and the price tag, I won't own a newer diesel.
 
Heholua said:
If you you run it out of DEF you're an idiot. The DEF tank is 10 gallons and should get around 10,000 miles, so if you run out its you're own fault. I have around 60K miles so far and no issues. Averaging 26-30 mpg.
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Finally someone with first hand experience. This is exactly what I wanted to see. I'm anxious to see if Jeep offers a diesel for the North American market.

Truck wise. The 2017 Ford F-250 is looking promising. The 7.0 are too old now. Bullet proof engines I agree but the poor trucks have half a million miles now.
 
highwaytrout said:
finally someone with first hand experience. This is exactly what i wanted to see. I'm anxious to see if jeep offers a diesel for the north american market.

Truck wise. The 2017 ford f-250 is looking promising. The 7.0 are too old now. Bullet proof engines i agree but the poor trucks have half a million miles now.
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7.3.

Gtfo..
 
Heholua said:
The 6.7s are pretty decent except for the radiators and EGR valves.
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I don't have a ton of experience with the 6.7s, but yes, the 6.0 and 6.4 sucked balls. The 6.7 is a Ford motor, not an International. The 7.3 was International, but when they switched to the 6.0 in 2003, they had stricter emissions to comply with, that's where everything went to shit. Ford lost so much money with the 6.0s, they decided to build their own and actually test it. I hope in the long run the 6.7 proves to be a good product. Ford turned a huge profit shortly after building the 6.7 motor because they didn't take the bailout money from the government. Many people directly bought Ford again just because of that.
 
WJCO said:
I don't have a ton of experience with the 6.7s, but yes, the 6.0 and 6.4 sucked balls. The 6.7 is a Ford motor, not an International. The 7.3 was International, but when they switched to the 6.0 in 2003, they had stricter emissions to comply with, that's where everything went to shit. Ford lost so much money with the 6.0s, they decided to build their own and actually test it. I hope in the long run the 6.7 proves to be a good product. Ford turned a huge profit shortly after building the 6.7 motor because they didn't take the bailout money from the government. Many people directly bought Ford again just because of that.
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The 6.7 I had went 230,000 miles and was in the shop 4 times. A couple of sensors and the radiator issue. Mileage was 17-18 mpg. The 6.4 was the worst Ford I had ever driven and could only get 14.5.
 
Heholua said:
... I have the 3.0 eco diesel Ram 1500 for my current company truck. If you you run it out of DEF you're an idiot. The DEF tank is 10 gallons and should get around 10,000 miles, so if you run out its you're own fault. I have around 60K miles so far and no issues. Averaging 26-30 mpg.
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Running out in normal life isn't my concern, it's the principle of having a second fluid without which my vehicle won't run that makes me squirm. I'd never given this all much thought even when owning the Touareg TDI. But I ended up with three vehicles after I traded it off, and having to keep one vehicle in storage, driving it once a week to keep it running, keeping its gas fresh, this all has made me realize how fragile our vehicle ecosystem is --> and the DEF only makes it that much more tenuous. I'm not saying this will keep me from buying a diesel JL, but I would feel better if I had a software DEF-delete tune I could use if needed (SHTF or cat/emissions failure out of warranty).
 
I see it as a total disaster. Imagine being on trail and the damn thing going into limp mode because of a DEF system failure. This is a very common occurrence in many of Chryslers newer diesels.
 
The other issue is turbo lag. This is why you cannot get a Ram Powerwagon in a diesel. You have no power until the turbo spools. Once it does you have shit tons of power. This would make crawling a diesel jeep quite the interesting experience.
 
sandfrog said:
I see it as a total disaster. Imagine being on trail and the damn thing going into limp mode because of a DEF system failure. This is a very common occurrence in many of Chryslers newer diesels.
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Can you site any specific cases? Of course I mean more than "all over forums".
 
sandfrog said:
The other issue is turbo lag. This is why you cannot get a Ram Powerwagon in a diesel. You have no power until the turbo spools. Once it does you have shit tons of power. This would make crawling a diesel jeep quite the interesting experience.
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Same thing happens on the supercharger jks. Power is all in the wrong places
 
sandfrog said:
The other issue is turbo lag. This is why you cannot get a Ram Powerwagon in a diesel. You have no power until the turbo spools. Once it does you have shit tons of power. This would make crawling a diesel jeep quite the interesting experience.
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Actually it's because the winch goes where the intercooler goes. That's it.

But they do have some lag. I towed my jk to moab this year with a new 16 Ram 3500 with the Aisin and 900 ft lbs. I was amazed at the lag at initial takeoff but it quickly spooled and then was a monster. The DEF was a pain in the ass. I ran the tank almost out 3 times on the way there/back. You'd be surprised how hard that shit is to find at 3 am in the middle of nowhere nebraska. I learned to just go to the truck lanes and top it off at every fuel up on way home. I'd you run totally out in the hd rams they will still start but it limits you to 5 mph. On the 1500 and grand cherokee, it starts warning you with 100 mile range left. If u run it out, once u shut off the vehicle it won't restart.
 
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sandfrog said:
I see it as a total disaster. Imagine being on trail and the damn thing going into limp mode because of a DEF system failure. This is a very common occurrence in many of Chryslers newer diesels.
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I'd like to see where u get your info too. I personally know at least 10-15 people with 1500 or grand cherokee diesels. Not one has had an issue with the def system.
 
Grubbicon said:
That really just doesnt seem right. What is he supposed to do if he is going on long trip and needs to fill it up. If I remember later I will look in the manual for my truck and see if it says anything about that because it just doesnt seem right.
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HighwayTrout said:
Can you site any specific cases? Of course I mean more than "all over forums".
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Pretty much grubbicon! And to highway trout. My brothers truck was a perfect example. He got bad def fluid(which was a new container he bought just a week before he put it in) and then went north to work for the week and on the way home his truck went into limp mode because of the bad DEF fluid causing a system failure. He had to limp it home about 30-40KM about about 20km/h because the truck would cutout because the truck wouldn't let him go any faster. And then the dealer (because the truck is under warranty) looked at it. Tested the fluid and sure enough it was bad, and it cost him 800 for the system cleaning, and another 200 for a rental in the mean time because he had to go back to work for part of the next week.
 
sandfrog said:
The other issue is turbo lag. This is why you cannot get a Ram Powerwagon in a diesel. You have no power until the turbo spools. Once it does you have shit tons of power. This would make crawling a diesel jeep quite the interesting experience.
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I read the Power Wagon engineers specifically said it was the heavy weight of the diesel engine itself that keeps it out of the running (the lighter diesel engines not being an option for such a big truck).

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a8016/ram-power-wagon-3-diesel-options/
 
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JamesWyatt said:
Running out in normal life isn't my concern, it's the principle of having a second fluid without which my vehicle won't run that makes me squirm. I'd never given this all much thought even when owning the Touareg TDI. But I ended up with three vehicles after I traded it off, and having to keep one vehicle in storage, driving it once a week to keep it running, keeping its gas fresh, this all has made me realize how fragile our vehicle ecosystem is --> and the DEF only makes it that much more tenuous. I'm not saying this will keep me from buying a diesel JL, but I would feel better if I had a software DEF-delete tune I could use if needed (SHTF or cat/emissions failure out of warranty).
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I honestly think you are trivializing the DEF fluid. Your vehicle can't run very long without engine oil, coolant, differential oil or ATF in the transfer case, not to mention many of the electronic sensors to boot. Welcome to technology.



sandfrog said:
I see it as a total disaster. Imagine being on trail and the damn thing going into limp mode because of a DEF system failure. This is a very common occurrence in many of Chryslers newer diesels.
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Could you please post up where you're finding this information?
 
Google "AdBlue problems". These are complicated systems, and the issues start showing up around 3 years and 50K miles. The heaters required for the AdBlue are starting to fail enough to show up with regularity online, at least for Audi/VW, Mercedes, etc. - not sure how Ram/GC are doing with that.
 
Heholua said:
I honestly think you are trivializing the DEF fluid. Your vehicle can't run very long without engine oil, coolant, differential oil or ATF in the transfer case, not to mention many of the electronic sensors to boot. Welcome to technology.
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I'm talking more SHTF situations in which fuel is really the only need. All the other vehicle fluids will well outlast the availability of fuel except for DEF.
 
JamesWyatt said:
Google "AdBlue problems". These are complicated systems, and the issues start showing up around 3 years and 50K miles. The heaters required for the AdBlue are starting to fail enough to show up with regularity online, at least for Audi/VW, Mercedes, etc. - not sure how Ram/GC are doing with that.
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The problems you speak of are from a different manufacturer and irrelevant to Chrysler products and their diesel engines.

JamesWyatt said:
I'm talking more SHTF situations in which fuel is really the only need. All the other vehicle fluids will well outlast the availability of fuel except for DEF.
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If that day ever comes do you think fuel will be available? You should look in to horses.
 
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