It would be nice to have 2.8 L diesel.

2nd.gunman said:
My facts come from years in the Industry and while big diesels will always be around because petrol engines just can't make the same torque but small diesels (under 3.0L) are dead because the whole of life cost is huge compared to a direct injection petrol.

20yrs ago when common rail first came out diesels were cheap, really efficient but dirty. The more they've tried to clean up the emissions the more expensive they've become. The fuel economy is still better than a port injected petrol but the direct injection turbo petrol engines have caught up to the diesels.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with new diesels we have a fleet of Mercedes vans that spend 8hrs a day
Idling no problem but the car industry has moved on. 10yrs ago it was diesel now it's direct injection petrol just have a look at the new car market
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I cannot speak for the goings on in Australia, but we are selling more diesel trucks now than we ever have... By a significant margin. 10-15 years ago we were selling about 15 HD's a month and it's almost triple that now... Not sure exactly how the car industry has "moved on" but I guess I'll have to take your word for it.

Saying that diesels are dead is completely different than saying they are more expensive today to maintain than they used to be... 2 totally different arguments
 
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Blazindevl said:
Your first problem is your buying fords!

Seriously though... While thats been your personal experience... Albeit a shitty one. That obviously doesn't happen on all trucks. Thats like the guy that had a Chevy and the motor blew up and now he doesn't drive Chevys anymore...

Sometimes performance costs money, hell... There are a bunch of guys here alone that have spent double that just for axles;)
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I agree with what your saying. I just miss my 2001 F350 and our 2005 2500 C trucks both of which went well over 200K miles with nothing more than oil changes.

Yes our business vehicle expenses are very high, but we've got to spend the money to make it back. Even though I probably won't personally own a big diesel truck out of warranty I am still buying them for myself. The power and stability for towing alone is worth it to me compared to the gasser trucks we have. Towing what I tow with the gas engines sucks arse.
 
Ctimrun said:
I agree with what your saying. I just miss my 2001 F350 and our 2005 2500 C trucks both of which went well over 200K miles with nothing more than oil changes.

Yes our business vehicle expenses are very high, but we've got to spend the money to make it back. Even though I probably won't personally own a big diesel truck out of warranty I am still buying them for myself. The power and stability for towing alone is worth it to me compared to the gasser trucks we have. Towing what I tow with the gas engines sucks arse.
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Not to mention that same HD with the gas motor is worth pennies on the dollar compared to the diesel

I'd miss that truck too if i was you... That powerstroke was the best and last good diesel that ford ever made... IMO
 
Blazindevl said:
Not to mention that same HD with the gas motor is worth pennies on the dollar compared to the diesel

I'd miss that truck too if i was you... That powerstroke was the best and last good diesel that ford ever made... IMO
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Yep, I agree. We have 3 diesel ford's the place I work. They are all unreliable. Alway having problems but the chev Duramax keep on running.
 
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Blazindevl said:
I cannot speak for the goings on in Australia, but we are selling more diesel trucks now than we ever have... By a significant margin. 10-15 years ago we were selling about 15 HD's a month and it's almost triple that now... Not sure exactly how the car industry has "moved on" but I guess I'll have to take your word for it.

Saying that diesels are dead is completely different than saying they are more expensive today to maintain than they used to be... 2 totally different arguments
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You're right I'm definitely talking more about cars than trucks as we don't really get anything bigger than a Colorado or Ranger but I'm saying dead because 10yrs ago all the manufacturers were all going diesel across the range including performance models and diesel was cheap. Now they are all going DI petrols except for a small 1.6-2.2L diesel for the diehard greenies.
 
Here is a thought for our American counter parts.
Sit down for this information.
A diesel conversion here in Australia can cost between $20,000.00 and $60,000.00 Aus.
The lower number for very common 6cly Toyota or Nissan engines.
The upper for the big turbo V8 American engines.
Cheaper if you do it your self.
If I had some cash I would consider the turbo V8 Toyota engine in th 79 series Utes.
Around 20k for this but don't know if a conversion is done or how hard it would be for the JK.
Thyt sound awesome in the toyotas.
Have you guys got theses engines in your American toyota's.
Is 4.5 litre I think.
On the other end Nissan patrol will no longer have a diesel option any more.
Only the big V8 petrol.
 
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I drive a 2.8 turbo diesel Wrangler Sahara. It's not noisy I don't hear it over my 35 tyres and it certainly isn't stinky. It doesn't rattle either. It's maintenance costs are slightly more expensive but the saving on fuel mileage is far more in return than the extra maintenance costs. It comes with 460 torque and wheels offroad great. I feel it's a shame they don't offer it to the American market. It's a great vehicle and I would never want to drive a petrol again this is my 2c but it is my personal experience driving one.
 
atrollip said:
I drive a 2.8 turbo diesel Wrangler Sahara. It's not noisy I don't hear it over my 35 tyres and it certainly isn't stinky. It doesn't rattle either. It's maintenance costs are slightly more expensive but the saving on fuel mileage is far more in return than the extra maintenance costs. It comes with 460 torque and wheels offroad great. I feel it's a shame they don't offer it to the American market. It's a great vehicle and I would never want to drive a petrol again this is my 2c but it is my personal experience driving one.
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Thats is awesome! Extremely jealous over here:yup: In the states here, the wrangler could definitely use an alternative engine option thats more capable than the current platform. The ecodiesels have already enjoyed success in the Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500... The Wrangler with its cult following seems like the obvious next choice.
 
Look I'm not saying it's more capable than the V6's, I would say it's more towing capable but I think offroad it's horses for courses, personal preference. Each to his own. Plus I get about 21.5 mile per gallon on the 35s which is a pleasure for distance travelling.
 
atrollip said:
I drive a 2.8 turbo diesel Wrangler Sahara. It's not noisy I don't hear it over my 35 tyres and it certainly isn't stinky. It doesn't rattle either. It's maintenance costs are slightly more expensive but the saving on fuel mileage is far more in return than the extra maintenance costs. It comes with 460 torque and wheels offroad great. I feel it's a shame they don't offer it to the American market. It's a great vehicle and I would never want to drive a petrol again this is my 2c but it is my personal experience driving one.
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Just curious, but with weight of the trail prep'd JK and a diesel, how does it do when you are negotiating down a steep trail? Do they use a Jake-brake? With weight and momentum a diesel isn't a very good breaking system like a petrol engine.
 
Well I got my the unlimited with ht tyres which I did find breaking on tar bad but after putting the Cooper Stt Max's on on road breaking is much better. Offroad I haven't found issues with decents and I did some really scary Dunes last year and breaking wasn't an issue, I have used the hill decent a few times with the steeper stuff but prefer to be in control. I actually found my offroad throttle control a little more trickier than the petrols but then again I must also say I don't have front and back aftermarket bumper yet so not so heavy as some of the rigs on here but I have been offroad a few times carrying an extra 30 gallons diesel. I don't think it has a jake brake. Sorry a bit inconclusive answer but haven't really had issues there.
 
Coop said:
Just curious, but with weight of the trail prep'd JK and a diesel, how does it do when you are negotiating down a steep trail? Do they use a Jake-brake? With weight and momentum a diesel isn't a very good breaking system like a petrol engine.
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Sorry but would,have to disagree.
Compression braking is exactly that.
Much more compression in the diesel than the petrol engine therefor making it a better option for steep decent braking using the engine.
 
toshigav said:
Sorry but would,have to disagree.
Compression braking is exactly that.
Much more compression in the diesel than the petrol engine therefor making it a better option for steep decent braking using the engine.
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You would think that! But not all Diesel engines regulate air delivery, so when you let off the skinny pedal, all you have cut off is fuel delivery. The air is still drawn in and compressed by the momentum of the vehicle spinning the crank shaft. The compressed air delivers almost 100% of the compression stroke back to the crank shaft for zero braking force. Since there are so few jeeps with diesels, I was curious if this was a noticeable effect. Perhaps with all the gearing, it doesn't have much of a negative effect.
 
Coop said:
You would think that! But not all Diesel engines regulate air delivery, so when you let off the skinny pedal, all you have cut off is fuel delivery. The air is still drawn in and compressed by the momentum of the vehicle spinning the crank shaft. The compressed air delivers almost 100% of the compression stroke back to the crank shaft for zero braking force. Since there are so few jeeps with diesels, I was curious if this was a noticeable effect. Perhaps with all the gearing, it doesn't have much of a negative effect.
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Not being a mechanic I could not say for sure.
But the air intake only happens on the down stroke.
On the compression stroke (all that air you say that was sucked) is now having to be compressed under much greater stress (compression) hence the braking effect = more air great Ep volume greater compression greater braking.
So long as the valves are closed on compression it would make no difference how much air was flowing.

What I do know is that my 2.8 does not run on like the 3.8 or 3.6 on a down hill decent.
With most things being equal I can only say that the 2.8 easily outshines the petrol.
 
toshigav said:
Not being a mechanic I could not say for sure.
But the air intake only happens on the down stroke.
On the compression stroke (all that air you say that was sucked) is now having to be compressed under much greater stress (compression) hence the braking effect = more air great Ep volume greater compression greater braking.
So long as the valves are closed on compression it would make no difference how much air was flowing.

What I do know is that my 2.8 does not run on like the 3.8 or 3.6 on a down hill decent.
With most things being equal I can only say that the 2.8 easily outshines the petrol.
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You would be right of course, except you left momentum out of your equation. This is what a jake (jacobs) brake is all about; I.e., releasing the air pressure. This isn't a dig at diesel engines.
 
Coop from personal experience with the gear ratios ect. There isn't any problems with steep decents they crawl well. The science/mechanics behind isn't my expertise.
I also want to add that I think both engines V6 and diesel are fantastic and I don't think one or the other makes it a better performer offroad as I feel unless u are doing extreme Dunes where u need vast amounts of power to climb out of it or extreme slick rock crawling these engines are competent more so the suspension installed, lockers, good spotting and drive experience would effect you more than what engine you have under the hood.
 
Coop said:
You would be right of course, except you left momentum out of your equation. This is what a jake (jacobs) brake is all about; I.e., releasing the air pressure. This isn't a dig at diesel engines.
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Did say that I was no mechanic.
I did read somewhere that the EGR and DPF also assist through exhaust gas limitation I.e restriction of flow.
Again I really don't know.
They are a nice motor though with std form producing 9.5lt per hundred kilometres and with 35's and a 3.5 lift heavily laden at 100kmh produces 12.5-13lt per 100klm.
Not cheap to service though.
40000klm is $1200.00 Aus. At the dealership.
 
atrollip said:
Coop from personal experience with the gear ratios ect. There isn't any problems with steep decents they crawl well. The science/mechanics behind isn't my expertise.
I also want to add that I think both engines V6 and diesel are fantastic and I don't think one or the other makes it a better performer offroad as I feel unless u are doing extreme Dunes where u need vast amounts of power to climb out of it or extreme slick rock crawling these engines are competent more so the suspension installed, lockers, good spotting and drive experience would effect you more than what engine you have under the hood.
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Thanks atrollip and toshigav, I was just curious, there are no options for diesel jeeps here, so there are very few around.
 
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