What happened in that pic? Was it installed bound up and then popped out?Those Currie arms are sweet. EVO used to make what are known as ENVY links and they were for their long arms but they no longer make and sell them.
LOL!! You guys are so easily sold and buy into the silliest things :crazyeyes:
View attachment 234110
What happened in that pic? Was it installed bound up and then popped out?
The bushings are supposedly not supposed to move much in the metal, just twist.
Clevite bushings have rubber bonded onto steel collars and get pressed into a control arm. They are the ONLY maintenance free joint available being that they can ONLY twist and have NO moving parts. The Metalcloak joints require a special lube to install them into a control arm and contrary to what you seem to believe, there is nothing preventing them from rotating inside of it and they DO. I have personally installed and bench tested them and have verified as much. It is in part what makes them work better than bonded rubber bushings but anything that has moving parts really NEEDS to be maintained.
Yeah I'm not saying they CAN'T move in the joint, just that the majority of their movement seemingly comes from twisting. Of course it all likely depends on how much articulation the arms see too. So yes, they do need the the lube they come with. How well that lube stays effective and in the joint, I don't know. Just saying that MC seems to think it's not something to worry about. If it were, wouldn't we probably hear a lot more than just a handful of stories about that kind of thing happening?
That still doesn't answer the question of why that specific pic you posted got messed up. Improper install? Bad materials? Or excessive use -> lube gone or ineffective? I don't think we can answer that just from a single picture.
You say I apparently don't know how joints work, yet you didn't disagree with anything I said except that you say they move completely freely in the joint and I say not completely freely due to the ridges helping to hold it...?:cheesy: Apparently, you only know what you've been sold and don't have a clue as to how joints work. When you tighten your control arm bolts to 120 ft. lbs. of torque, you are effectively clamping the crush sleeve passing through the joint and preventing it from moving. On a Clevite or bonded rubber bushing like you'd find on a factory control arm, this forces the rubber in the joint to twist as the arm moves up and down with the articulation of the axle. In the case of something like a Johnny Joint, the spherical ball is essentially the crush sleeve and the urethane bushings rotate around it. On a Metalcloak joint, the rubber is bonded to the spherical ball and while it will twist with the angle of the axle, there is nothing to prevent it from rotating inside the control arm housing. This is why you need to apply a special lube to the bushing when installing it. The fact that you haven't seen or heard of more of these joints go bad is most likely because guys like you believe they are the best thing since sliced bread, have been sold on the idea that they're somehow indestructible, are maintenance free and haven't bothered to take them apart to see if they've gone bad. You can drive on a blown joint for a long time and most people don't even know it. Of course, I can't make this shit up and have no need to. You of course can believe whatever it is you want to believe.
You say I apparently don't know how joints work, yet you didn't disagree with anything I said except that you say they move completely freely in the joint and I say not completely freely due to the ridges helping to hold it...?
Ok, I'll stop buying siped tires since they're useless.Your tires have ridges and yet they don't seem to do a whole lot on ice. Rubber joints with ridges won't do a whole lot when you have to install them with a special lube. When the lube dries up, they will offer more resistance or at least, until they wear out. But hey, who needs to bother with a silly thing like maintenance.
Ok, I'll stop buying siped tires since they're useless.
I never said they wouldn't wear out eventually. I passed along info that MC said you don't need to relube them.eh, doesn't really make a difference what you buy if you believe they'll never wear out like your super awesome maintenance free Metalcloak joints. :cheesy:
chitown35 said:I never said they wouldn't wear out eventually. I passed along info that MC said you don't need to relube them.
Tires are essentially maintenance free, but they still wear out. See where I'm going?Funny, I could have sworn you said, and I quote "there is no need to grease the joints, they are essentially maintenance free." Never heard of a moving part that doesn't need regular maintenance especially one with ridges that are supposed to offer resistance to rotation. :cheesy:
Speaking of which, I'd be interested to hear just how much effort you've found is needed to rotate a Metalcloak joint inside the control arm. I'm sure I haven't done nearly as much testing as you have but here are a few joints that I've had a chance to tinker with.
View attachment 234170
Tires are essentially maintenance free, but they still wear out. See where I'm going?
How much effort? I've only messed with the arms when one end is physically installed but the arms themselves move easily up to a certain point, then it becomes more difficult. How do you propose I quantify that? Anyway I imagine this transition is from just twisting up the rubber to actually moving it inside the joint.
So maybe if you're mostly on road then you want as little rotation of the bushing inside the metal as possible to prevent premature wear.
But I guess if you trailer to the trail and are immediately and mostly at extreme articulation the entire time, I could see where you want a joint you can keep lubed up or rotating freely. I don't think that's the majority of the market though. And I don't know how many cycles of bushing movement against the metal it takes to wear the bushings.
Ok so as far as how fast they wear out, here's an idea: https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=jXzyl3k8e1E
That being said, it's a single success story so I give it as much credence as a single picture.