Black Bear Pass Accident

2Cross said:
Before you know it, Black Bear could become like Devils canyon in the movie "Bedeviled". Having grown up near Durango, my opinion is that Telluride could care less about the offroad crowd (motorcycles, razrs, jeeps) and this would be their excuse to close this historic trail. On the other hand, Ouray and Silverton welcome the offroad crowd.

A good solution would be charge a fee for the trail and put all money into the trail maintenance and rescue.

My .02
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I respectfully completely disagree. Public unmaintained land shouldn't require fees. This sets a terrible precedent.

I understand your point but I would vigorously fight any such action, and so would a lot of groups in CO.
 
H8ROADS said:
I respectfully completely disagree. Public unmaintained land shouldn't require fees. This sets a terrible precedent.

I understand your point but I would vigorously fight any such action, and so would a lot of groups in CO.
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You may disagree and you are right about fighting fees.

But the precedence has been set. Black Bear Pass is a maintained road and was originally a toll road for miners. We already have other places that require a fee for public land like Sand Flats in Moab. A small fee to keep it open is worth it to me. Especially when you consider how much we pay to purchase, build and maintain our rigs. $5 will not break the bank. I understand you are operating on principle and I would prefer to not pay a toll.
 
2Cross said:
You may disagree and you are right about fighting fees.

But the precedence has been set. Black Bear Pass is a maintained road and was originally a toll road for miners. We already have other places that require a fee for public land like Sand Flats in Moab. A small fee to keep it open is worth it to me. Especially when you consider how much we pay to purchase, build and maintain our rigs. $5 will not break the bank. I understand you are operating on principle and I would prefer to not pay a toll.
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Fuck that! You can keep your pay to play places. I'll keep my open free to use public deserts.
 
I'm from illinois and we drive to Kentucky or Indiana to wheel and we pay at the gate for everyone except 1 and I'm hearing that's about to change shortly.
 
OverlanderJK said:
Fuck that! You can keep your pay to play places. I'll keep my open free to use public deserts.
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Of which More and More trails are being closed every day. I would much rather be in Colorado than California, this state sucks. And it sucks because of environmentalists and politicians.
 
Mtb275 said:
Of which More and More trails are being closed every day. I would much rather be in Colorado than California, this state sucks. And it sucks because of environmentalists and politicians.
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There is a lot less closed in the desert than in the mountains. And I also never said California deserts either.
 
True you didn't say California.

I also do a bunch of motorcycle riding and every time we go to jawbone and the surrounding areas, more trails are closed. It's crazy and sad.
 
Mtb275 said:
True you didn't say California.

I also do a bunch of motorcycle riding and every time we go to jawbone and the surrounding areas, more trails are closed. It's crazy and sad.
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Off topic ,

Jawbone is shut down for a man hunt going down..
 
If we keep making safety king, we'll all be allowed out of the house once a week, with a special permit of course.
 
OverlanderJK said:
F@&$ that! You can keep your pay to play places. I'll keep my open free to use public deserts.
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I'll keep my pay to play AND the deserts. That's the whole point of my argument. I'd rather pay a fee to keep a trail open than have it closed.
How many trails are closed now that were once open? I can think of several here where I live.

The bureaucrats are going to come after the deserts once they get done with shutting down the mountains. They'll come up with a crisis --- An accident or an endangered species that likes to sit in the middle of the trail. Then they will close the trail and it will never re-open.
 
2Cross said:
Before you know it, Black Bear could become like Devils canyon in the movie "Bedeviled"... A good solution would be charge a fee for the trail and put all money into the trail maintenance and rescue.
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Actually, Devil's Canyon is technically still "open" and they do charge you a $100 fee just to apply for a permit. As far as rescue goes, you are required to have medical, rescue and evacuation plans in order to obtain your permit as well as liability insurance for $500,000 per occurrence and a $1,000,000 aggregate. This is so that YOU are able to cover the cost of any injuries or rescue that might be required while on BLM land. Of course, this is to say nothing about the fact that the trail is only open to a limited amount of people only on 7 Saturdays a year and to those who are able to obtain a permit and of course, the trail can NOT be run on back to back Saturdays.

H8ROADS said:
I respectfully completely disagree. Public unmaintained land shouldn't require fees. This sets a terrible precedent.
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Agreed. "Public" lands are public because our tax paying dollars are already paying for us to use them.

2Cross said:
But the precedence has been set. Black Bear Pass is a maintained road and was originally a toll road for miners.
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I have to disagree. Old toll roads were developed by entrepreneurs who constructed them in an effort to supply a demand by miners who were looking for a faster route from point A to point B. Not exactly the same thing.

We already have other places that require a fee for public land like Sand Flats in Moab. A small fee to keep it open is worth it to me. Especially when you consider how much we pay to purchase, build and maintain our rigs. $5 will not break the bank.
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And for me personally, I find it ironic that a "fee" area like this would still be called, "public land". I mean, I get that Sand Flats was developed by Americorps, the BLM, Grand County and the community of Moab back in 1995 to be what it is today and that an investment like that needs to be paid for but, for me personally, I don't like the idea of having to wheel in developed designated parks that I have to pay again to use.

OverlanderJK said:
Fuck that! You can keep your pay to play places. I'll keep my open free to use public deserts.
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Sharkey said:
Agreed. Hopefully all of these pay to play gurus will stay the hell out of Nevada.
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It's is one of the biggest reasons why we moved out of California and up to Northern Nevada.

2Cross said:
I'll keep my pay to play AND the deserts. That's the whole point of my argument. I'd rather pay a fee to keep a trail open than have it closed.
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A play area like Sand Flats isn't exactly a "trail" the way a single trail like Black Bear Pass. Devil's Canyon is a perfect example of a trail still being "open" and one that you have to pay to use but, it might as well be closed.

How many trails are closed now that were once open?
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In my lifetime, more than I can even count and it's depressing for sure.

That being said, 42 trails were closed up in the Eldorado National Forest back in 2012 and thanks to concerned private citizens who also happened to be lawyers and the help local clubs, one (Barrett Lake) just reopened a couple of weeks back, 2 more are scheduled to reopen this summer and most of the others are to follow suit. ALL of the trails that are being reopened will remain FREE of charge. It's not often but it can happen and without having to bend over and PAY to use public lands.

Of course, this is all just my 2¢
 
wayoflife said:
Actually, Devil's Canyon is technically still "open" and they do charge you a $100 fee just to apply for a permit. As far as rescue goes, you are required to have medical, rescue and evacuation plans in order to obtain your permit as well as liability insurance for $500,000 per occurrence and a $1,000,000 aggregate. This is so that YOU are able to cover the cost of any injuries or rescue that might be required while on BLM land. Of course, this is to say nothing about the fact that the trail is only open to a limited amount of people only on 7 Saturdays a year and to those who are able to obtain a permit and of course, the trail can NOT be run on back to back Saturdays.



Agreed. "Public" lands are public because our tax paying dollars are already paying for us to use them.



I have to disagree. Old toll roads were developed by entrepreneurs who constructed them in an effort to supply a demand by miners who were looking for a faster route from point A to point B. Not exactly the same thing.



And for me personally, I find it ironic that a "fee" area like this would still be called, "public land". I mean, I get that Sand Flats was developed by Americorps, the BLM, Grand County and the community of Moab back in 1995 to be what it is today and that an investment like that needs to be paid for but, for me personally, I don't like the idea of having to wheel in developed designated parks that I have to pay again to use.





It's is one of the biggest reasons why we moved out of California and up to Northern Nevada.



A play area like Sand Flats isn't exactly a "trail" the way a single trail like Black Bear Pass. Devil's Canyon is a perfect example of a trail still being "open" and one that you have to pay to use but, it might as well be closed.



In my lifetime, more than I can even count and it's depressing for sure.

That being said, 42 trails were closed up in the Eldorado National Forest back in 2012 and thanks to concerned private citizens who also happened to be lawyers and the help local clubs, one (Barrett Lake) just reopened a couple of weeks back, 2 more are scheduled to reopen this summer and most of the others are to follow suit. ALL of the trails that are being reopened will remain FREE of charge. It's not often but it can happen and without having to bend over and PAY to use public lands.

Of course, this is all just my 2¢
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Well Spoken. Thanks for schooling me.
And that's why I'm not an attorney.
 
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Sorry, but I pay enough in taxes to have to turn around and pay again to access "public" lands.
 
In Sweden we have zero trails. That sucks big wale cock.

All roads are in good condition and driving outside the road is not allowed. So I actually think you can be happy anyway.

Thinking about to drive down to Balkan ( croatia, albania, greece and so on ) There I might have some use for my jeep. Or go east to russia and proberly end up being robbed, raped and shot. Or go further down south from balkan and end up being shot by a IS fighter in Syria.

I really do not know how to get some use for my beloved jeep.
 
Bingobelle said:
In Sweden we have zero trails. That sucks big wale cock.

All roads are in good condition and driving outside the road is not allowed. So I actually think you can be happy anyway.

Thinking about to drive down to Balkan ( croatia, albania, greece and so on ) There I might have some use for my jeep. Or go east to russia and proberly end up being robbed, raped and shot. Or go further down south from balkan and end up being shot by a IS fighter in Syria.

I really do not know how to get some use for my beloved jeep.
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We are a spoiled bunch. Thank you for reminding me.
 
Is there any more recent news about the trail? Has it stayed open?

I noticed that Jeep is coming out with a "Black Bear" special edition JK for 2016. It would be wrong if none of these are able to drive down the trail they were named after.
 
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