Bandoola - Moab Roll-over

p38 said:
I am readdressing this particular photo because there is something very valuable here which needs to be stated and was omitted in the original post because I was more concerned with defending my action. I would like to acknowledge OverlanderJK for calling me on this - he is 100% correct. The best intentions are not always the smartest course of action. When I realized I was headed off that edge, I yelled to the spotter and waved him out of the way - good intention. While in this particular situation there was enough distance from the rock and time to get my arm back inside, it was not smart. As OverlanderJK pointed out in private conversation, the spotter sees what's happening and will get out of the way.
I built a tank, with the underlying idea if anything happened, just stay inside and hang on - and I intentionally stuck my arm out. It worked - this time. But what if it hadn't? The spotter got out of way, the jeep had a few dents, and I could have lost an arm - and it would have been my fault.
This forum is all about sharing ideas, adventures, interests, experiences, with a number of topics; perhaps there needs to be a new one - confessions or warnings. At the airline we had a program of "Self Disclosure", where you could confess your misdeed or infraction with the primary focus serving to educate others. This is certainly one of those occasions.
What ever the case - KEEP YOUR ARMS INSIDE.
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This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read on any kind of forum. I would head into any situation with you, sir. Glad it turned out ok.
 
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p38 said:
OK, here's the details and pictures of the roll-over on "High-Dive" this past April at Moab.
I was on the trail "Behind The Rocks" with a group of very experienced drivers, extremely capable rigs, and an excellent spotter. This was my 3rd trip to Moab, and honestly I had avoided this trail in the past because of the hazards described in the trail guide. But, what better way to gain some experience than with a group like this. We made our way to "High Dive"; several of the obstacles I encountered enroute required repeated attempts - but with each of those I was gaining experience and confidence in my rig. We got to "High Dive" and the spotter went first. I observed the use of ropes to control his descent, but it obviously didn't make a strong enough impression. I watched as several others successfully made their way down the obstacle and when I heard, "Who's next?" I heard my mouth say, "Me". In retrospect, my jeep is stretched - but it's still only102". A rope might not have been a bad idea. I pulled the straps of my 5 point harness as tight as they would go and rolled forward. Reaching the edge, the angel on my right should was whispering, "This might not be a good idea", while the devil on the left was saying, "Remember, as the french say, Pas de balles - pas de médailles aériennes". Translation - "No balls - no air medals". Atlas - front and rear in low, SM420 in 1st, I lined up on the spotter. No throttle and foot on the brake I was making my way about 2/3 of the way down and I felt the brake pedal mush to the floor, simultaneously I felt the rig accelerate, heard the spotter say, "Slower", and pumped the brake pedal as hard as I could. I heard the pop as the pedal went to the floor, saw the drop, saw the spotter, yelled "NO BRAKES", and signaled for him to get out of the way. The jeep dropped, rolled left - I saw the windshield hit and crack, and then rest was feeling the jeep roll around me. It was relatively slow and smooth, the only jolt was when it landed on the right side. I pulled the kill pin but it didn't kill the engine. I could hear the guys yelling, "Shut it off, shut it off". With the kill pin in my hand, I had to locate the fuel correct pump switch and turn it off. (Note: those switches are in an sPod located overhead, and when covered with dust are difficult to ascertain which is on. Those will be changed in a future mod)
If memory is correct, the first to arrive were the spotter, and my friend Art Crofts. They both asked if I was ok and assured me I was not on fire and not leaking fuel - comforting info when you're laying on your side and strapped in so tight you cant move. Art told me to stay put and replied, "That's not going to be a problem". Art, his son Brian, and others winched me back upright and helped me out of the rig.
At this point I need to say thank you to all who helped me, and showed a genuine concern for my well being.
The rig was surveyed and the offending brake line located. Actually, I think some of the guys knew because they were standing next to it when it failed.
Something you will see in the pictures, there's no debris field - nothing flew out or off the rig. It doesn't resemble the "Yard Sale" look you see after so many other roll-overs. Every piece of equipment or accessory in my rig is either bolted or strapped in place. There are flush mounted tie down rails and Mac's built a custom set of straps for my gear. The owner of Mac's was there - once he made certain I was ok, he took pictures of all the gear - securely held in place. There's a National Luna Fridge/freezer as well - it stayed put.
View attachment 366105Spotter is telling me to slow down, I feel the pedal fade and pump it hard.

View attachment 366114 Brake line failed, jeep slid down the steep rock and the left front tire hooked up in that gap on the right side. My left arm is out to wave at the spotter and others to get out of the way. I had it back inside when the windshield hit.

View attachment 366115 The contact points here are the stinger, left side of the hood, and the windshield. My arm is safely inside.

View attachment 366116Rotating off the stinger and the roof rack.

View attachment 366117Continuing to rotate on the stinger, roof rack appears to be clear.

View attachment 366118Coming down on the roof rack. The momentum is carrying the jeep forward and it's about to roll onto the right side.

View attachment 366119Coming down on the right side.

View attachment 366120This is where the right rear corner hits. You can see some of the damage to the left side windshield.

View attachment 366121This is pretty much where it came to rest.

I'll post the damage pictures in another post.
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When I seen the video of this soon after it happened, I recognized your Jeep, and hoped the day would come when you would share the story with us here.

Food for thought:
First, when writing a long story, include some paragraph breaks with a line skipped in between points. It makes it much easier to read.
Someone gave me that advice a few years ago, and I am thankful for it.

Second, steep drops like that, in a manual, are very risky in low gear. I know of many similar accidents to yours from too low of a gear.

If you were able to power out at the bottom, you could have possibly saved it, but in low gear and a manual, you come against the rev limiter way before you get enough wheel speed to drive out of a flip.

This goes doubly so in a short wheelbase rig, and a tall one at that.

Third, thanks for sharing the build, and the story, so others can learn from it.
 
jdofmemi said:
When I seen the video of this soon after it happened, I recognized your Jeep, and hoped the day would come when you would share the story with us here.

Food for thought:
First, when writing a long story, include some paragraph breaks with a line skipped in between points. It makes it much easier to read.
Someone gave me that advice a few years ago, and I am thankful for it.

Second, steep drops like that, in a manual, are very risky in low gear. I know of many similar accidents to yours from too low of a gear.

If you were able to power out at the bottom, you could have possibly saved it, but in low gear and a manual, you come against the rev limiter way before you get enough wheel speed to drive out of a flip.

This goes doubly so in a short wheelbase rig, and a tall one at that.

Third, thanks for sharing the build, and the story, so others can learn from it.
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Thanks for the pointers, you are correct. I usually do that, I guess this time I just got lazy. My old english prof would slap me.

I wondered about low gear vs 2nd. I've noticed, especially in Moab, climbing in 2nd has been more successful than crawling in 1st - higher wheel speed. The brake system on the jeep at the time of the roll-over was never capable of holding in 1st, I wondered if 2nd might have allowed a slower descent. You say low gear is very risky - why?

When the video first appeared on the internet I went round and round with Monday morning quarterbacks pointing out how I didn't follow my spotter, should have powered out, should have done this, should have done that; and of course - how they would have done it. I bit, mostly because my pride was hurt - even offering to pay for fuel should they decide to drive to the exact spot and cut a brake line. Not only was my offer not accepted, some of the critics were, "between vehicles". That was the main reason I took so long to post the story.

I spent 40 years in aviation, many facets including major airlines and airshows - I am used to critique, evaluation, checkrides, etc. The difference being, the credibility of the critic.

Having said that, I would like to further discuss some of your points. I will PM with my info.

You are welcome, thank you for your interest and input. (BTW - it's saw, not seen in your first sentence, LOL)
 
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