35s - Would I be missing out?

[wayoflife]

While your point is valid, the only way new and innovative development can functionally occur is if it's attempted and then tested in the marketplace. If no one tried their flavor and no one buys it, we'll continue on with what we've always had (which may or may not be fine). These guys make a persuasive argument for their kit and the concept of their 6Pak shock is an interesting engineering solution.

Sure, it might go the way of the Wankel motor and never develop past a technological curiosity but that said, having owned a rotary (and really enjoyed it)... sometimes it's fun to try something different and watch it work.

Actually, I think you're still missing my point. Relatively speaking, things like coil overs are in fact new and innovative and have been developed by companies trying to meet the harsh demands of racing professionals running million dollar rigs. Seeing the performance and abuse they can handle is all the "persuasive argument" I need to know they are a superior solution. And, maybe it's just me but, I don't know if I really see anything new or innovative about a basic set of dual rate coils or a glorified set of shocks and really, that's all they really are. If in fact they are as innovative and new as you say they are, I have little doubt that we'll start to see them out in Baja and on the Ultra4 circut. But, I won't hold my breath.

Besides... their stuff looks pretty and we all know that's what truly matters on the trails.
:bleh:

:cheesy: How could I forget. However, I still think a set of King coil overs and bypass shocks are way more sexy :brows:

 

[TacPen]

If in fact they are as innovative and new as you say they are, I have little doubt that we'll start to see them out in Baja and on the Ultra4 circut. But, I won't hold my breath.

There's a flaw in your logic, you're assuming that off-road technology is validated only through racing. That's simply not the case, the needs of the casual off-roader are not necessarily the same as that of Baja or Ultra4 racers. If that's what you're building then more power to you but so far I haven't seen anyone on the forum talking about racing their Jeep the past few weekends.

Sure, you could argue that if it's good enough for Baja it's good enough for casual wheeling but by that same logic I should have the latest and greatest F1 technology on my sports car and I think we can both agree that would be ridiculous (both from a price and performance standpoint). I don't drive an F1 car to work and you don't drive an Ultra4 truck to the office. Million dollar rigs have million dollar budgets for their million dollar suspension problems, the rest of us don't. Sometimes building something within the limitations of budget really does net novel solutions which, within a given framework, are just as good or better. Without testing them side by side and setting performance metrics to compare them, it's really just internet rhetoric and opinion anyway.

Seeing the performance and abuse they can handle is all the "persuasive argument" I need to know they are a superior solution.

Then by your own admission you've already made up your mind that there's only one best answer to the suspension problem and any other development is moot and evidence of another solution a waste of time.

Brother, it's your forum and I'll gladly shut my yap. I just like seeing other people solve the same problem, sometimes they come up with something cool.

 

[JAGS]

Note: If I had the moolah for it, I'd seriously love to try the MetalCloak Game Changer though. Love the way it's engineered.

While your point is valid, ......

Actually, I think you're still missing my point.

:standing wave::standing wave::standing wave:My thread has been hijacked. :cheesy:

No offense TacPen, but I don't think the game changer is 35s appropriate for a budget build. Looks like that kit is a complete rebuild of the entire suspension and still leaves me with with a basic spring lift and crazy shocks (6pac:crazyeyes.

For that price, why not go coilover and increase your flex and increase ride comfort and speed with King coilovers?

But that is all another conversation as I'm looking at lost adventures by dialing back to 35s vs 37s. While I will/might be missing out on Eddie's extreme rock adventures, it sounds like I'll still be able to crawl with Moby and the big boys on a little less extreme stuff and earn my stripes. Not a bad thing for someone who admittedly still needs to google about the words/terms used on the forum. :thinking:

 

[OverlanderJK]

:standing wave::standing wave::standing wave:My thread has been hijacked. :cheesy:

No offense TacPen, but I don't think the game changer is 35s appropriate for a budget build. Looks like that kit is a complete rebuild of the entire suspension and still leaves me with with a basic spring lift and crazy shocks (6pac:crazyeyes.

For that price, why not go coilover and increase your flex and increase ride comfort and speed with King coilovers?

But that is all another conversation as I'm looking at lost adventures by dialing back to 35s vs 37s. While I will/might be missing out on Eddie's extreme rock adventures, it sounds like I'll still be able to crawl with Moby and the big boys on a little less extreme stuff and earn my stripes. Not a bad thing for someone who admittedly still needs to google about the words/terms used on the forum. :thinking:

I wouldn't be too discouraged with running 35's. You can still do a lot and go a lot of places its just some places will require a little more work/skill to get through with the smaller tires.

If you options are coilovers and 35's verse enforcer and 37's, personally I would run 35's and coilovers. You can always upgrade tires in the future when the money is there.

 

[TacPen]

My thread has been hijacked.

Crap, you're right. My apologies. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
:doh:

 

[JAGS]

I wouldn't be too discouraged with running 35's. You can still do a lot and go a lot of places its just some places will require a little more work/skill to get through with the smaller tires.

Yep, I'm warming up to it a bit as I think more about it. First on the list is getting armored up a bit, which will also help give piece of mind I'm not going to mess anything up too bad.

If you options are coilovers and 35's verse enforcer and 37's, personally I would run 35's and coilovers. You can always upgrade tires in the future when the money is there.

I'll need to see where the cash is when I start and what $$$ security I have at the time. Might go BB or a simple TF 2.5 lift and 35s, then do coils, then go up to 37s. So maybe even three-stages. :idontknow:

Hey, if I get up on 35s in the not too distant future, were gonna have to hit up some trails.:thumb:

 

[OverlanderJK]

Hey, if I get up on 35s in the not too distant future, were gonna have to hit up some trails.:thumb:

I'll be lifted on 35's by the end of the month hopefully. Going to start working on my sliders soon as well.:thumb:

 

[wayoflife]

There's a flaw in your logic, you're assuming that off-road technology is validated only through racing. That's simply not the case, the needs of the casual off-roader are not necessarily the same as that of Baja or Ultra4 racers. If that's what you're building then more power to you but so far I haven't seen anyone on the forum talking about racing their Jeep the past few weekends.

:cheesy: My Jeeps are my daily drivers. I drive them everywhere and would never dream of trailering either. Need I say, the quality of my ride and handling on pavement is just as important to me as it is off road and they are built accordingly. If it helps you sleep better at night believing that the casual off-roader wouldn't want or need what racers of Baja or Ultra4 have, may you have sweet dreams. :yup:

Sure, you could argue that if it's good enough for Baja it's good enough for casual wheeling but by that same logic I should have the latest and greatest F1 technology on my sports car and I think we can both agree that would be ridiculous (both from a price and performance standpoint)... Million dollar rigs have million dollar budgets for their million dollar suspension problems, the rest of us don't.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Everyone has the same suspension problems and Million dollar rigs just see exaggerated versions of them. The solutions they develop are then offered to the rest of us in a package that is more affordable and fits our needs and I for one am grateful for that.

...I don't drive an F1 car to work and you don't drive an Ultra4 truck to the office.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. My daily driver JK has the same suspension system that EVO 1 does and that is a rig they've run in the Ultra 4 KoH the last 2 years and will be running again this year as well as several other Ultra 4 races.

Sometimes building something within the limitations of budget really does net novel solutions which, within a given framework, are just as good or better. Without testing them side by side and setting performance metrics to compare them, it's really just internet rhetoric and opinion anyway.

:cheesy: Funny, I could have sworn you were the one who said "If I had the moolah for it..." Coil overs are bit more moolah but, not by much. As far as side by side tests go, there are things call races and people use them to do just that. The metric is that they all run the same course and with the same rules. Heck, they even have an every mans class that this awesome and innovative technology can participate in only, they'd be competing against things like standard King shocks.

Then by your own admission you've already made up your mind that there's only one best answer to the suspension problem and any other development is moot and evidence of another solution a waste of time.

Brother, it's your forum and I'll gladly shut my yap. I just like seeing other people solve the same problem, sometimes they come up with something cool.

Please, are the dramatics really necessary? All I've done is expressed my opinions based on my JK experiences over the last 6 years and really, what do I know. Nobody is saything that you have to like or even agree with any of them.

 

[wayoflife]

I wouldn't be too discouraged with running 35's. You can still do a lot and go a lot of places its just some places will require a little more work/skill to get through with the smaller tires.

If you options are coilovers and 35's verse enforcer and 37's, personally I would run 35's and coilovers. You can always upgrade tires in the future when the money is there.

As I've said before, 35's are a great size tire and one that I highly recommend as they do not require the kind of upgrades that 37's do.

 

[wayoflife]

I'll be lifted on 35's by the end of the month hopefully. Going to start working on my sliders soon as well.:thumb:

What tires and sliders are you going with?

 

[JAGS]

I'll be lifted on 35's by the end of the month hopefully. Going to start working on my sliders soon as well.:thumb:

Well, I'll be doing armor probably in February. See how things go by that point and then do lift and tires. Maybe uncle sam wont take too much and I'll have a little extra for the playground?

 

[TacPen]

Please, are the dramatics really necessary? All I've done is expressed my opinions based on my JK experiences over the last 6 years and really, what do I know. Nobody is saything that you have to like or even agree with any of them.

Not dramatics. I wouldn't come into your house and tell you that you're wrong so I'm just trying to be polite even as we have a friendly discussion on your forum, that's all.

That and I'm trying not to be "that guy". Still, I disagree in that racing is the ultimate test of a weekend-wheeling rig.

However, I have been known to be wrong from time to time. Hell, ask my wife!

 

[wayoflife]

Not dramatics. I wouldn't come into your house and tell you that you're wrong so I'm just trying to be polite even as we have a friendly discussion on your forum, that's all.

:cheesy: I think you've mistaken me for someone who'd care. If you think I'm wrong - you think I'm wrong. Simple as that. :yup:

Still, I disagree in that racing may not be the ultimate test of a weekend-wheeling rig.

And, nobody is saying you have to agree with anything. What I will say is that if I really thought that the Metalcloak stuff was better than what I have right now, it would have already been on my rig. :yup:

 

[OverlanderJK]

:cheesy: I think you've mistaken me for someone who'd care. /QUOTE]

Hahaha this made my day!

 

[OverlanderJK]

What tires and sliders are you going with?

I think I'm going with the STT's for now. And for sliders I'm going to try and make my own. We'll see how that goes.

I h e a few pieces of cardboard lying around that should hold up well. Haha

 

[JAGS]

Not dramatics. I wouldn't come into your house and tell you that you're wrong so I'm just trying to be polite even as we have a friendly discussion on your forum, that's all.

Actually it's "our" forum so it's about respecting everyone who's on, not just the mods. The mods could actually care less about business things. Were all just jeep people. But unlike other forums, we don't throw down BS and launch agendas or call people out. That's why dramatics don't/won't fly here. I think that is all WOL meant.

:cheesy: I think you've mistaken me for someone who'd care. If you think I'm wrong - you think I'm wrong. Simple as that. :yup:

Hahaha this made my day!

Me too!!

 

[JKAnimal]

This is a great thread since I have been in the same dilemma as you JAGS. I was going to go with the 3" Enforcer and 35s or 37s. Then the thread came out about just going coil overs and 35s which really screwed me up. :yup: I want a lift and tires before I take my summer trips this year so I'm trying to make a final decision as which way to go... I want to build toward JKX so... :icon_crazy:

I thought I would just do it once and do it right as suggested by MTG but I can't bring myself to drop that much cash to build another Moby . Just can't do it at this point.

Like you I am a small business owner and can drop some cash but not that much... and, well you know the problems associated with security of future biz. Cash is a much needed commodity in case everything goes to hell.

So after all the reading I've done I don't think I'm ready for 37s.

So my question to everyone is if you go 35s (planning on NITTO Trail Grapplers) is the Enforcer a better lift then the bolt on coil overs since they can both be upgraded in the future?:thinking:

 

[JAGS]

This is a great thread since I have been in the same dilemma as you JAGS.

Hey Doknocker, we have in lot in common! Almost item for item. Are you my twin. :crazyeyes:

Enforcer will get you there to 37s, but coilovers are better, though also slightly more coin. Those aren't my words, they come from others in other threads and also from WOL earlier in this thread I think. :thinking: That alone is a big chuck of change. So I may go wheels/tire and plush spring coil lift with maybe some bilsteins or even just run shock extensions.

That should get me started and able to play on the rocks with some big boys a bit. Then I can gradually build from there adding coilovers/axle upgrades and then 37s. So maybe I can do JKX2015.:idontknow:

 

[wayoflife]

So my question to everyone is if you go 35s (planning on NITTO Trail Grapplers) is the Enforcer a better lift then the bolt on coil overs since they can both be upgraded in the future?:thinking:

"Better"? I suppose it would depend on how you define what "better" is. The Enforcer is a great kit that comes with everything you need to get riding on 35's or 37's and it's more affordable so, in that way, it's better. However, the bolt-on coil overs will perform better especially on the trail but, you will still need components to complete your suspension setup and overall, it'll costs more.

 

[MTG]

First, I love my jeep and how it rides. It performs flawlessly for what I need and can probably do a whole lot more than I have done with it so far. But if I were building now and wasn't too concerned about money I'd go with EVO's bolt-on coilovers. If for no other reason than they are the latest technology, have a little more travel, and frankly look badass!

However, I would never put my livelihood at risk for a vehicle. If it were me and I were in a similar situation, and could afford it, I'd buy the 4" Enforcer with draglink flip kit and skip the Kings. Run some Bilsteins until cash reserves are built up. Then upgrade to King shocks or coilovers if you feel you need/want them. Somebody tired of their stiff ass ride will buy the EVO ones which will help defray the cost of the upgrade.

And don't forget all the other stuff that goes along with the build--recovery gear, bumpers, tire carrier, winch, armor, roll cage, DS, wayalife swag (not tattoos), wheel, tires, beer money for suds and grub, gas money for all the runs etc.

FWIW--I too was going to go with a BB and maybe 33's before Sharkey talked me into the Enforcer. It was way more than I had intended to do and spend on the jeep. But I'm glad I did it. Of course now I'm addicted and am eyeing the DTD EVO lever which is a whole different discussion. :crazy eyes: But a stock jeep is plenty capable and a BB with bigger tires makes it all the more capable!

Sucks to be in your shoes in that you want to make the right decision. However just know it doesn't end once you make one...there is always something to add...now where is that thread on the 2012 PSC system? LOL!