Short Arms & Coil Overs VS Long Arms With Shocks & Springs?

GP NOIR

GP NOIR

Hooked
Rather than clutter up the Accu Air thread with an off topic question, I thought I'd start another-

wayoflife said:
For sure, the ACCUAIR system is NOT a coilover setup but then, it's not trying to be. That said, I think it performs surprisingly well and we have a video about this coming soon.
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This was Eddie's answer to my question as to how well the Accu Air handles high speed runs over whoops and washboards and it got me to thinking.

How much is the ability to handle high speed runs due to coil overs and how much due to long arms? If you were setting up a Wrangler to handle desert bombing (not exclusively. I'm talking about a bomber that can make a high speed run to your favorite rock pile) which is more important?

How effective is a short arm with coil overs going to be compared to long arms with shocks & springs?
 
Ideally, you want BOTH long arms and coilovers but if you could only do one, coilovers will do a better job of soaking up the bumps.
 
What he said ^^^

And obviously it all really depends on just how - and just how much - you use your Jeep. Obviously long arms and coilovers will give you the most composure and comfort, but do you need them? I have a 2 door and it's not as much of a desert bomber as it is a crawler, so I think the most I'd do is just bolt on coilovers with adjustable control arms mounted in the stock spot. (Or short arms as others call them.) I believe you have a 2 door as well if I'm not mistaken and it's worth remembering how long arms can eat into your breakover angle because of your wheelbase as well - and I don't know how much of a difference long arms would really make on a 2 door because well, it's a 2 door. You still sit right in front of the rear wheels.

So again, it just comes down to how you use your Jeep and how much you wanna spend. Each and every setup may or may not be ideal for each and every person.
 
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DirtHeadDavis said:
What he said ^^^

And obviously it all really depends on just how - and just how much - you use your Jeep. Obviously long arms and coilovers will give you the most composure and comfort, but do you need them? I have a 2 door and it's not as much of a desert bomber as it is a crawler, so I think the most I'd do is just bolt on coilovers with adjustable control arms mounted in the stock spot. (Or short arms as others call them.) I believe you have a 2 door as well if I'm not mistaken and it's worth remembering how long arms can eat into your breakover angle because of your wheelbase as well - and I don't know how much of a difference long arms would really make on a 2 door because well, it's a 2 door. You still sit right in front of the rear wheels.

So again, it just comes down to how you use your Jeep and how much you wanna spend. Each and every setup may or may not be ideal for each and every person.
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I just built this 98 xj it now has 91/2 inch lift and 17/40/15 and a 3 link from iron rock the flex is unreal we do everything from trail rides to the deepest holes to rocks the proformance is great in all seriousness but like what was said it depends on the person the use and money you want to spend mine does everything I need to it to and to honest it's hard to beat for what we do in Ohio
 
oscarhuey said:
I just built this 98 xj it now has 91/2 inch lift and 17/40/15 and a 3 link from iron rock the flex is unreal we do everything from trail rides to the deepest holes to rocks the proformance is great in all seriousness but like what was said it depends on the person the use and money you want to spend mine does everything I need to it to and to honest it's hard to beat for what we do in Ohio
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If you are outside this built-up Jeep XJ and push on the top of it in order to get it rocking back and forth can you get it to fall over on it's side?
 
My Wrangler is a daily and used for everything- Rock Crawling, Sand, Trail Running, Mud, Snow, Camping, Exploring. I don't expect it to be best at everything, for example I don't try to take it through Rock Buggy lines or expect to blast through whoops at 100 MPH. But I'd like it to handle most things well.

Because I don't know what I don't know, are good coil overs better than good shocks and coil springs?
 
If I had to choose, definitely coilovers! Especially if you keep lift to a minimum at under 2.5-3." Short-mid arms perform really well at low lift. I'd say build it with coilovers and plan on upgrading to long arms down the road. Another benefit of Co's is you just adjust the height when you are ready.
 
On another forum, a guy claims that bolt on coil over kits should be avoided because the kits don't give the correct geometry. He said that you need to cut tubs, frames etc. to set up coil over correctly. Claimed a Jeeper would be better off using shocks & coils. He didn't give any details. I don't remember where I saw the post so I can't ask him for clarification.

Is the guy right or wrong and why?
 
GP NOIR said:
He didn't give any details...

Is the guy right or wrong and why?
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Clearly, if some guy made a claim about why all bolt on coilover kits should be avoided, on another forum and without giving any details, it must be true.

Me, I can only show you what the bolt-on coilover kit could do for me and you can decide for yourself if standard shocks and coils could do better.
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GP NOIR said:
On another forum, a guy claims that bolt on coil over kits should be avoided because the kits don't give the correct geometry. He said that you need to cut tubs, frames etc. to set up coil over correctly. Claimed a Jeeper would be better off using shocks & coils. He didn't give any details. I don't remember where I saw the post so I can't ask him for clarification.

Is the guy right or wrong and why?
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Why not ask that guy this question? Why would we have to prove him right or wrong?

Man people believe the dumbest shit and question the stuff that makes the most sense.
 
Eddie, thanks for the vid. I'll take a close look at it after work.

OverlanderJK said:
Why not ask that guy this question? Why would we have to prove him right or wrong?

Man people believe the dumbest shit and question the stuff that makes the most sense
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As I said- I don't remember where I saw the post. I can't ask because I can't even find the post. Even if I were able to ask the guy, I want other opinions and am looking for the facts.

Does a bolt on coil over have worse handling characteristics compared to shocks & coils? Problems with squat, dive, roll center...? I've never heard of any, but I like to dig into the technical aspects and find out what the pros and cons of different systems are.

If bolt on coil overs make the most sense to you, why?

Or do you think people should just accept what someone posts on the internet, just because that someone says so?
 
GP NOIR said:
Eddie, thanks for the vid. I'll take a close look at it after work.
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Like I said, I think it'll speak for itself how it performs on the rocks and I think you can decide for yourself if standard coils and shocks can come anywhere close to that.
GP NOIR said:
Does a bolt on coil over have worse handling characteristics compared to shocks & coils?
Problems with squat, dive, roll center...? I've never heard of any, but I like to dig into the technical aspects and find out what the pros and cons of different systems are.
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The question you should be asking is, why would it? In the end, you're still running coils and shocks - just in a different configuration. The guy you were referring to would need to explain why it would somehow be worse, especially on a JL.
GP NOIR said:
If bolt on coil overs make the most sense to you, why?
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Bolt on coilovers ONLY really make sense, to me, IF you do a lot of fast and hard driving across the desert and need a suspension system that can soak up the bumps better and take longer to start fading. They do offer a LOT more travel than standard coil and shocks and so there are benefits to them being used on the rocks as well. That said, they cost a hell of a lot more and require regular maintenance of which can be a pain and again, cost money. If I lived anywhere east of the Rockies or worse, the rust belt, I personally would NOT run coilovers of any type. To me, it would be a big waste of money.
 
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GP NOIR said:
On another forum, a guy claims that bolt on coil over kits should be avoided because the kits don't give the correct geometry. He said that you need to cut tubs, frames etc. to set up coil over correctly. Claimed a Jeeper would be better off using shocks & coils. He didn't give any details. I don't remember where I saw the post so I can't ask him for clarification.

Is the guy right or wrong and why?
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wayoflife said:
Like I said, I think it'll speak for itself how it performs on the rocks and I think you can decide for yourself if standard coils and shocks can come anywhere close to that.
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That’s flexy!

The question you should be asking is, why would it? In the end, you're still running coils and shocks - just in a different configuration. The guy you were referring to would need to explain why it would somehow be worse, especially on a JL.
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That is the question I’ve been asking myself. After giving it some thought, I don’t see how it would be worse. But I wanted to sure that I wasn’t missing something.

Bolt on coilovers ONLY really make sense, to me, IF you do a lot of fast and hard driving across the desert and need a suspension system that can soak up the bumps better and take longer to start fading. They do offer a LOT more travel than standard coil and shocks and so there are benefits to them being used on the rocks as well.
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That’s what I’m looking for.

That said, they cost a hell of a lot more and require regular maintenance of which can be a pain and again, cost money. If I lived anywhere east of the Rockies or worse, the rust belt, I personally would NOT run coilovers of any type. To me, it would be a big waste of money.
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Good points to consider.

It seems to me that a good remote reservoir shock also has added maintenance, so that’s a wash?

Rust isn’t a problem here in Utah, but that might explain why some folks who live back east don’t like coil overs.

Eddie, thanks for sharing your experiences. You’ve been a help.
 
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