School me on C-Gussets and C's in general....

NFRs2000NYC

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
Hey guys, I try to learn as much as I can, and ain't no better place for it, some if you don't mind, pardon my ignorance and help me understand a few things.....

My ride is a 2014 Rubi Unlimited on 315 Duratracs on 16" wheels. Keep in mind, I live in the north east, basically the wheeling desert. I don't really wheel around here, and try to do at least 1 trip out west once a year. When I do, if the stuff Eddie runs is a 10, I run a 4. Basically if you use the Charles Wells books, the hardest stuff I run is the blue trails, not really the red ones (I generally wheel alone as well).


1) I know that once you cross over the 35" barrier, getting C gussets is the wise move....so the first question....what happens if you don't get C gussets? I ask because I read time and time again (and I agree with it) people say not to throw any money towards the stock axles and just wait until you need to (basically wheel till they break) and upgrade to a PR44.

2) If the C's do bend, what can be done? Can they be repaired? Replaced?

3) I notice that not all C gussets are the same thickness. The shop I would be using (the only one in NJ basically that people seem to trust with their jeeps) make their own (claim it is the same design as synergy)...I realize it's just a piece of welded steel, but I keep reading that C gussets, once installed, start to contact your coils. I run an AEV 2.5" lift, and do NOT want any metal/metal contact. Is this something that is guaranteed (metal to metal contact) if one installs C gussets?

Thanks in advance for the help, Im sure I'll have some followup questions, but these are the basics.:beer:
 
NFRs2000NYC said:
Hey guys, I try to learn as much as I can, and ain't no better place for it, some if you don't mind, pardon my ignorance and help me understand a few things.....

My ride is a 2014 Rubi Unlimited on 315 Duratracs on 16" wheels. Keep in mind, I live in the north east, basically the wheeling desert. I don't really wheel around here, and try to do at least 1 trip out west once a year. When I do, if the stuff Eddie runs is a 10, I run a 4. Basically if you use the Charles Wells books, the hardest stuff I run is the blue trails, not really the red ones (I generally wheel alone as well).


1) I know that once you cross over the 35" barrier, getting C gussets is the wise move....so the first question....what happens if you don't get C gussets? I ask because I read time and time again (and I agree with it) people say not to throw any money towards the stock axles and just wait until you need to (basically wheel till they break) and upgrade to a PR44.

2) If the C's do bend, what can be done? Can they be repaired? Replaced?

3) I notice that not all C gussets are the same thickness. The shop I would be using (the only one in NJ basically that people seem to trust with their jeeps) make their own (claim it is the same design as synergy)...I realize it's just a piece of welded steel, but I keep reading that C gussets, once installed, start to contact your coils. I run an AEV 2.5" lift, and do NOT want any metal/metal contact. Is this something that is guaranteed (metal to metal contact) if one installs C gussets?

Thanks in advance for the help, Im sure I'll have some followup questions, but these are the basics.:beer:
Click to expand...

1) Cs bend then your camber angle is permenantly off, leading to poor tire wear etc. I believe this can also lead to leaking axle seals, but I may be wrong on that one.

2) You can still gusset to prevent further bending, but there is no going back once they are bent.

3) Not sure on this one. I have the EVO gussets, but have coilovers so cant comment on spring contact, but I do remember reading about it, but not sure if its really much of a problem. I would think it would only put a bit of side load on the base of the spring, where it contacts the axle. They dont rub past the first turn if I remeber correctly.

Hope that helps a bit. I am sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in.
 
I wouldn't spend a lot of money but I would get the C's now that you are on 35's. You can bend them just hitting a pothole on the interstate. It's a great investment for only a few hundred dollars. Well worth the peace of mind. :yup:
 
I have no experience with these, but I have welded cast to steel. I'm not sure they are going to offer much unless you pre-heat the cast components. Welding cast without pre-heating is a one way ticket to breakage. They sell some great upgraded axle housings. Not cheap, but probably a better option.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
MarkW13 said:
I have no experience with these, but I have welded cast to steel. I'm not sure they are going to offer much unless you pre-heat the cast components. Welding cast without pre-heating is a one way ticket to breakage. They sell some great upgraded axle housings. Not cheap, but probably a better option.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using WAYALIFE mobile app
Click to expand...

As far as I know the C's are cast steel not cast iron. So welding steel to steel, different cooling rates is not a problem.
 
1- I would even want to add C's for a set of wide 33's. Hitting a pot hole with a stock C's on stock tires could even cause a bend.

2- you could spend a lot of money to have the entire c removed and another one placed on. At that time It would be cheaper to buy a stock take off and just replace the entire axle. If the c is only slightly bent they do make offset balljoints that can correct the damage to some extent but they arent cheap either(but cheaper than replacing the axle).

3- Really a gusset is a gusset and there's nothing special to any specific companies design. I like EVO's just because it fits so perfectly to the spring perch and is almost a no brainer as to how it installs and lots of weld surface. Ive not ran AEV coils so I can not speak with certainty as to if it will contact or not. Usually aftermarket coils are larger in diameter to stock coils and there will almost always be contact with the spring to any gusset that extends down to the axle tube. There's not a lot of room there, but ultimately its not a big deal.
 
Every jeep I've seen with gussets and coils the coil will lay against the gusset which is a non issue, its only the bottom ring of the coil touching the gusset all it can do is hold your coil in place better, I wouldn't run 35's without gussets
 
Panda said:
Every jeep I've seen with gussets and coils the coil will lay against the gusset which is a non issue, its only the bottom ring of the coil touching the gusset all it can do is hold your coil in place better, I wouldn't run 35's without gussets
Click to expand...

Mine touch. Doesn't seem to be a problem.
 
Ok so even if they touch, they don't make noise of any kind? No grinding, slamming into each other, etc? They just touch and are permanently that way right (they don't move away from each other and then contact again?

Seems like it's a worthwhile upgrade, and the shop doesn't charge much for them installed, so I guess I'll do that. :thumb:

Oh, and and since they touch, they don't make spring removal (if necessary) and issue right?
 
NFRs2000NYC said:
Ok so even if they touch, they don't make noise of any kind? No grinding, slamming into each other, etc? They just touch and are permanently that way right (they don't move away from each other and then contact again?

Seems like it's a worthwhile upgrade, and the shop doesn't charge much for them installed, so I guess I'll do that. :thumb:

Oh, and and since they touch, they don't make spring removal (if necessary) and issue right?
Click to expand...

Mine touch and with zero issues. You will have no issues removing springs. They touch ever so slightly
 
I took a grinder to my evo gussets - took a little off on both ends to keep the fit and clear the springs.

Spending winters in areas where they use rock salt, I didn't want to introduce any additional areas to rust - especially the bottom portion of the springs.

with all the springs available it's hard to get a one-size fits all but they can be ground down to get a better fit.

The welder I used painted the gussets with weldable primer before installing then coated them with black after.
 
NFRs2000NYC said:
1) I know that once you cross over the 35" barrier, getting C gussets is the wise move....so the first question....what happens if you don't get C gussets? I ask because I read time and time again (and I agree with it) people say not to throw any money towards the stock axles and just wait until you need to (basically wheel till they break) and upgrade to a PR44.
Click to expand...

As Chris said, I would get gussets even with 33" tires as a heavy hit to a pot hole can be enough to bend your end forging (axle c). The problem isn't even so much the tire size but rather, the greater offset of it'll have from running wheel spacers or wheels with less back spacing. You just have a lot more leverage going on and this will cause bending of the C's. Even with gussets, this will still put more wear and tear on your ball joints and unit bearings.

2) If the C's do bend, what can be done? Can they be repaired? Replaced?
Click to expand...

You cannot repair an axle C's. You might be able replace them but the time and money to do it wouldn't be worth it. What you can do is install offset ball joints to correct the camber caused by them being bent but, you would still want gussets to prevent further bending.

3) I notice that not all C gussets are the same thickness. The shop I would be using (the only one in NJ basically that people seem to trust with their jeeps) make their own (claim it is the same design as synergy)...I realize it's just a piece of welded steel, but I keep reading that C gussets, once installed, start to contact your coils. I run an AEV 2.5" lift, and do NOT want any metal/metal contact. Is this something that is guaranteed (metal to metal contact) if one installs C gussets?
Click to expand...

Thickness doesn't matter, they will all get the job done just fine. If you're really hitting potholes or worse hard enough to bend a gusseted C, you will definitely be bending your axle housing first and really should be saving up for a ProRock 44.
 
jeeeep said:
I took a grinder to my evo gussets - took a little off on both ends to keep the fit and clear the springs.

Spending winters in areas where they use rock salt, I didn't want to introduce any additional areas to rust - especially the bottom portion of the springs.

with all the springs available it's hard to get a one-size fits all but they can be ground down to get a better fit.

The welder I used painted the gussets with weldable primer before installing then coated them with black after.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I will ask the shop if they can do just that!:thumb:
 
wayoflife said:
As Chris said, I would get gussets even with 33" tires as a heavy hit to a pot hole can be enough to bend your end forging (axle c). The problem isn't even so much the tire size but rather, the greater offset of it'll have from running wheel spacers or wheels with less back spacing. You just have a lot more leverage going on and this will cause bending of the C's. Even with gussets, this will still put more wear and tear on your ball joints and unit bearings.



You cannot repair an axle C's. You might be able replace them but the time and money to do it wouldn't be worth it. What you can do is install offset ball joints to correct the camber caused by them being bent but, you would still want gussets to prevent further bending.



Thickness doesn't matter, they will all get the job done just fine. If you're really hitting potholes or worse hard enough to bend a gusseted C, you will definitely be bending your axle housing first and really should be saving up for a ProRock 44.
Click to expand...

So I am correct in my understanding that you recommend C gussets to be the ONLY strengthening mod one should do to a stock axle, and that's it, correct?
 
I've read where some will grind a notch in the gussets. There seems to be no issues/noises touching.. With mine at least.
The Coil pretty much sits on top of the Artec gusset.

ImageUploadedByWAYALIFE1414333951.531111.jpg
 
NFRs2000NYC said:
So I am correct in my understanding that you recommend C gussets to be the ONLY strengthening mod one should do to a stock axle, and that's it, correct?
Click to expand...

To the housing, yes. Me, I'd be more concerned with the axle shaft and ring and pinion. You can drive just fine with a bent axle but a broken drive train components can leave you high and dry. If anything, I would recommend getting chromoly shafts with full circle clips and make sure NOT to run a gear ratio that leaves you with a tiny pinion gear.
 
wayoflife said:
To the housing, yes. Me, I'd be more concerned with the axle shaft and ring and pinion. You can drive just fine with a bent axle but a broken drive train components can leave you high and dry. If anything, I would recommend getting chromoly shafts with full circle clips and make sure NOT to run a gear ratio that leaves you with a tiny pinion gear.
Click to expand...

For the North East, Im content with my 4.10s. It's not lightning mcqueen, but it is much better than my 2012 with 3.21s and 33s. Around here, it's fine. Going over Vail pass might suck, but otherwise, I don't think I will regear the stock axles. If I get a PR44 down the line, then I will regear the rear to match. I will upgrade the shafts as well, but that will be sometime next year, as I am on a strict jeep mod budget (thanks to the wife) so one step at a time. :D Ideally I wanted to do it all at the same time (since from what I understand you need to remove the shafts to change out the balljoints) but I just don't think I can swing the $600+ for new shafts at this time.
 
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