Jeep denies Death wobble on stock jeeps !

RUMMY

RUMMY

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So Jeep says that death wobble is caused by lift kits and larger tires being installed incorrectly . Wow I have 2 friends who have Rubicon's completely stock and are dealing with the Wobbles . So how long do we think it will take Jeep / Fiat to fess up to it ?


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RUMMY said:
So Jeep says that death wobble is caused by lift kits and larger tires being installed incorrectly . Wow I have 2 friends who have Rubicon's completely stock and are dealing with the Wobbles . So how long do we think it will take Jeep / Fiat to fess up to it ?


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Never.
My stock TJ and XJ had the death wobble.

Besides, their obligation is to stock holders, not customers or safety. Unless an external entity with no investor obligation and no financial interest proves beyond a resonable doubt, and can do so solidly enough to survive the marketing and legal spin to follow, they will never fess up. They will only do so if it pays to.
 
I love my Jeeps but but big business is wrecking our country by not standing behind anything any more . We might as well put our product in the same league as china anymore ! It sickening !


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I guess Jeep figures why should they when ford has been denying brake issues on trucks and mustang gas tank blowing up since the late 60s and gm trucks out board gas tanks blowing up in the 80s so what's a Lil death wobble !


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RUMMY said:
So Jeep says that death wobble is caused by lift kits and larger tires being installed incorrectly . Wow I have 2 friends who have Rubicon's completely stock and are dealing with the Wobbles . So how long do we think it will take Jeep / Fiat to fess up to it ?


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In all fairness, death wobble can be caused by lift kits and larger tire not being installed correctly. Having said that, it can also be caused by loose or worn out suspension/steering components and this is something that even stock Jeeps can suffer from. More times than not, a lack of maintenance is to blame for this. There are over 1 million Jeep JK Wranglers out there and truth be told, only a very small percentage of people have DW and it's definitely something that can be fixed. This thread will help you out:

http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?...s-What-it-isn-t-and-What-You-Can-Do-to-Fix-it
 
wayoflife said:
In all fairness, death wobble can be caused by lift kits and larger tire not being installed correctly. Having said that, it can also be caused by loose or worn out suspension/steering components and this is something that even stock Jeeps can suffer from. More times than not, a lack of maintenance is to blame for this. There are over 1 million Jeep JK Wranglers out there and truth be told, only a very small percentage of people have DW and it's definitely something that can be fixed. This thread will help you out:

http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?...s-What-it-isn-t-and-What-You-Can-Do-to-Fix-it
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Ask Mel about Lisa's maiden voyage home in the pure stock EVOlander he just bought. :naw: I was amazed at what he told me......
 
GCM 2 said:
Ask Mel about Lisa's maiden voyage home in the pure stock EVOlander he just bought. :naw: I was amazed at what he told me......
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Oh, Mel told me and we got a ride in it. Far from stellar and hard to believe that people want their Jeeps to ride like "stock" but, far from DW too.
 
RUMMY said:
So Jeep says that death wobble is caused by lift kits and larger tires being installed incorrectly . Wow I have 2 friends who have Rubicon's completely stock and are dealing with the Wobbles . So how long do we think it will take Jeep / Fiat to fess up to it ?


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Never, death wobble is part of the nature of the beast with straight axles! From Scouts to Blazers, Jeeps to trucks they all can get it.


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Paisano said:
Never, death wobble is part of the nature of the beast with straight axles! From Scouts to Blazers, Jeeps to trucks they all can get it.


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Yup, what he said :yup:

GCM 2 said:
Insane that it rode that bad!
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Didn't yours? For the most part, all the JK's we've had rode pretty sucky stock too :idontknow:
 
I just find it hard to believe there isn't a design flaw in the jeeps because I had the wobble in my last 05 Lj rubi and it only had 30k on it and never been wheeled at all when I got it . I went over everything and all was good but still had it . So I replaced track bare ball joints control arms with the best I could buy plus adjusted alignment to perfection to get rid of it . Never really got closure on the cause because I think it was a combination of a tire belt issue and factory trac bar . Needless to say a bad belt in a tire should not be an accident causing brown streak in your pats issue !


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It doesn't help that everyone is pushing for better and better MPG. A buddy of mine that works at a tire shop told me that the newer JK toe specs are less than the older. Less tow is good for MPG and bad for DW... :twocents: Metric bolts in STD holes is just silly though (trac-bar). Especially when you consider the suspension design is prone to this anyway.
 
RUMMY said:
I just find it hard to believe there isn't a design flaw in the jeeps because I had the wobble in my last 05 Lj rubi and it only had 30k on it and never been wheeled at all when I got it . I went over everything and all was good but still had it . So I replaced track bare ball joints control arms with the best I could buy plus adjusted alignment to perfection to get rid of it . Never really got closure on the cause because I think it was a combination of a tire belt issue and factory trac bar . Needless to say a bad belt in a tire should not be an accident causing brown streak in your pats issue !


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But it's not a design flaw and ANY vehicle with a solid front axle is prone to getting DW. If it really were a flaw, you would see it from day one and you don't. If it were a design flaw, there would literally be millions and millions of vehicles that have DW but there aren't. Again, loose and or worn out suspension/steering components and even things like tires that aren't balanced well can and will cause DW.

jnabird333 said:
It doesn't help that everyone is pushing for better and better MPG. A buddy of mine that works at a tire shop told me that the newer JK toe specs are less than the older. Less tow is good for MPG and bad for DW... :twocents: Metric bolts in STD holes is just silly though (trac-bar). Especially when you consider the suspension design is prone to this anyway.
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Not true at all. The toe spec on the JK is right where it needs to be and is that way on any rear wheel drive vehicle. Ideally, you want your toe to be at a point where your tires become more parallel when driving forward. This helps with better tracking and proper tire wear. As far as the metric bolts used goes, the only thing that is silly is the fact that a handful of people have done such a good job of hyping it up as if it were really a problem and all so that they can sell you weaker bolts that you don't need. So long as they are tightened to the proper torque spec, they aren't going anywhere. Lack of proper maintenance will allow them to come loose and that is what causes them to wollow out mounting holes and help instigate DW.
 
Rummy's Rule # 69 if it fits tight its all right but if it has play send it away .


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wayoflife said:
Not true at all. The toe spec on the JK is right where it needs to be and is on any rear wheel drive vehicle. Ideally, you want your toe to be at a point where your tires become more parallel when driving forward. This helps with better tracking and proper tire wear. As far as the metric bolts used goes, the only thing that is silly is the fact that a handful of people have done such a good job of hyping it up as if it were really a problem and all so that they can sell you weaker bolts that you don't need. So long as they are tightened to the proper torque spec, they aren't going anywhere. Lack of proper maintenance will allow them to come loose and that is what causes them to wollow out mounting holes and help instigate DW.
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I don't know what the spec is as my statements are all third-party he told me the earlier JKs are to be set to 1/8" and the new are set to 1/16". (To be honest he is a few fries short of a happy meal). IF this is accurate I can't imagine why the spec would change though... I do agree with you that the intention of the toe it to proactively address the flexing at the wheels and tires while driving so they roll in a more parallel fashion. Where I disagree with you is that you DO NOT want them perfectly parallel, especially with larger tires. If they are too parallel small road variations will cause the tire sidewall to flex from one side to the other. The shifting sidewall load can initiate DW and even if it doesn't it can cause squirrely handling. Toe should be set to make the tires roll as parallel as possible wile keeping the sidewalls loaded on the same side. This is why all vehicles feather wear tires.

Now that I've typed all that... I have a 13' and haven't experienced DW yet. So what-ever the spec is... it must be okay, at least for some.

As for the metric bolt std hole.... I was only regurgitating what I had read. I haven't changed my bolts and don't plan to until a need warrants it. I do check and inspect for tightness.

:thumb:
 
jnabird333 said:
I don't know what the spec is as my statements are all third-party he told me the earlier JKs are to be set to 1/8" and the new are set to 1/16". (To be honest he is a few fries short of a happy meal). IF this is accurate I can't imagine why the spec would change though...
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:cheesy: If your friend can provide proof of this change, I'd like to see it. What I can tell you is that I've owned two 2007 JK's, one Unlimited Rubicon and one a 2-door Sahara, a 2009 Unlimited X and now a 2012 Unlimited Rubicon and all of them have the same toe-in spec.

I do agree with you that the intention of the toe it to proactively address the flexing at the wheels and tires while driving so they roll in a more parallel fashion. Where I disagree with you is that you DO NOT want them perfectly parallel, especially with larger tires. If they are too parallel small road variations will cause the tire sidewall to flex from one side to the other. The shifting sidewall load can initiate DW and even if it doesn't it can cause squirrely handling. Toe should be set to make the tires roll as parallel as possible wile keeping the sidewalls loaded on the same side. This is why all vehicles feather wear tires.
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Not sure where you got the idea from but, I don't believe that I ever said that the tires should be "perfectly parallel". I think you and I are on the same page here. :yup:

As for the metric bolt std hole.... I was only regurgitating what I had read. I haven't changed my bolts and don't plan to until a need warrants it. I do check and inspect for tightness.

:thumb:
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Unfortunately, there is a lot of bad information on the internet and a lot of it comes from guys who sound like they know what they are talking about. The worst part is, a lot of it is put out there to sell people things they don't need.
 
wayoflife said:
:cheesy: If your friend can provide proof of this change, I'd like to see it. What I can tell you is that I've owned two 2007 JK's, one Unlimited Rubicon and one a 2-door Sahara, a 2009 Unlimited X and now a 2012 Unlimited Rubicon and all of them have the same toe-in spec.



Not sure where you got the idea from but, I don't believe that I ever said that the tires should be "perfectly parallel". I think you and I are on the same page here. :yup:



Unfortunately, there is a lot of bad information on the internet and a lot of it comes from guys who sound like they know what they are talking about. The worst part is, a lot of it is put out there to sell people things they don't need.
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I will ask him for the info. He works for Tire Discounters (Not Discount Tire). I would think they pull their specs directly from the manufacturer. But I don't know that for sure.

I just reread you post and it was a rushed read on my part. I agree we are on the same page. :thumb:

I agree with the information on the net (I even make fun of it in my signature). I try to only take the information at face-value and attempt to come to my own opinion. The gotcha to this is I have read it on sooooooooo many sites and threads.
 
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