Help with Axles

D

Dlanor82

New member
Hi guys,

I just got a V8 from Motech (L86 GenV with 8 speed transmission) in my 2012 JKUR and I am really getting concerned about axles/driveshafts upgrade.

I am currently running an AEV JK350 package (4.5" lift, AEV front/rear bumpers, 37" tires). I am also using the stock Rubicon driveshafts and stock Rubicon Dana 44's with 4.88 Gears. This being said, I don't foresee myself upgrading to 40's for long time, mainly because I would have to change the front/rear bumpers, tire carrier, and possibly the suspension, which would cost a fortune.

AEV sell V8 JKURs just like mine all day long and keep the stock Rubicon driveshafts and Dana 44's albeit with 4.56 gears. They claim that these jeeps are meant for over-landing and are extremely reliable as is. They also however offer the serious performance axle set from Dynatrac as an option (PR44/60).

I happen to know that the balljoints and housing on the front Rubicon Dana 44 are weak and will need replacing at some point in time. I also know that the brakes do need to be upgraded when you have a 6,500 LBs jeep. And I also know that the factory driveshafts will eventually need to be upgraded as well. I am not so sure about how well the Rubicon axleshafts will hold with the 460 lb.ft of torque of the V8.

This being said, when I add up all of the expenses involved in keeping the stock Rubicon 44's and strengthening them, I find myself being very close in cost to purchasing the serious performance axle set from Dynatrac and reselling my axles.

But every time I call Dynatrac, the person I speak to steers me towards the PR60/60 set instead of the 44/60.
This makes me question the strength of the 44/60 compared to my stock Rubicon setup. Ideally, I would like to get the serious performance package (PR44/60) and retain the factory 5x5 wheel pattern. That would save me a ton of money versus buying new wheels and the difference in price between the PR44/60 and the PR60/60.

Now I totally understand that a full float 60 is going to be a lot stronger and safer than a semi-float 60. but you are looking at spending, at a minimum, 1.5x what you would spend on the PR44/60.

In terms of areas that fail, how much is the PR44/60 stronger than the factory Rubicon 44? Can you spend your day doing burnouts, running moderate to hard trails, and use the Jeep as a daily driver without worrying about axle failure with the PR44/60 and 37's? Could you eventually increase the tire size to 40's and wheel carefully with it as well ?
 
The 60 front will get you a larger ring and pinion, and larger axle shafts, vs a 44. If I were doubling horsepower and torque, as you have done, going 60 in the front and 60 or 80 in the rear seems like a no brainer.
 
fiend said:
The 60 front will get you a larger ring and pinion, and larger axle shafts, vs a 44. If I were doubling horsepower and torque, as you have done, going 60 in the front and 60 or 80 in the rear seems like a no brainer.
Click to expand...

I'm with fiend, you spent the cash on the LS swap why skimp out on axles to support the new power. If you can't afford a 60/60 or 60/80 then save up until you can.
 
Being that you live in Nevada, it'd be criminal not to open up the throttle on your LS and bomb through the desert. That being said, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that without my ProRock 60/80 under my Jeep.
 
wayoflife said:
Being that you live in Nevada, it'd be criminal not to open up the throttle on your LS and bomb through the desert. That being said, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that without my ProRock 60/80 under my Jeep.
Click to expand...

Guess I need a V8 now. I always do things backwards. :doh:


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
JK_Dave said:
What type of driving do you do? If you never see rocks, then the 60/60 might be overkill.


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
Click to expand...

I do lots of highway driving and occasional moderate to hard trails with Jeep groups. The main reason I went with the AEV setup was the dual sport suspension which is great on and off road. Now I understand that I won't necessarily be able to tackle extreme stuff like guys with 40's and coilovers and rock crawling bumpers but I should be able to stay pretty close. I just don't want anything to brake if because of the torque of the V8 or if i step on the pedal a little more than I should.

Now if I am going to spend a crazy amount of money on axles, I would much rather have it right the first time. but spending 1.5x more needs to be warranted. I also haven't driven a PR 60/60 V8 and I worry that the added weight might make it feel heavy and sluggish.
 
Dlanor82 said:
I do lots of highway driving and occasional moderate to hard trails with Jeep groups. The main reason I went with the AEV setup was the dual sport suspension which is great on and off road. Now I understand that I won't necessarily be able to tackle extreme stuff like guys with 40's and coilovers and rock crawling bumpers but I should be able to stay pretty close. I just don't want anything to brake if because of the torque of the V8 or if i step on the pedal a little more than I should.

Now if I am going to spend a crazy amount of money on axles, I would much rather have it right the first time. but spending 1.5x more needs to be warranted. I also haven't driven a PR 60/60 V8 and I worry that the added weight might make it feel heavy and sluggish.
Click to expand...

Not gonna matter with that motor! I just put 60s and 40s on and with my 3.8 it is awful!


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
You know, I'd be skeptical of advice from someone trying to sell me something too, but I have heard several stories from guys on here where they've actually been sold down when they didn't need as much axle as they originally wanted by Dynatrac sales reps. I'd have to imagine, they're telling you to go with the 60/60 because others in your same situation are running that combo with no issues.

If it were my money, I might actually go up to the XD60 rear just to get more ring gear size and pinion strength. As for your wheels, you can probably recoup some of the cost by selling them. If your main goal is to avoid breaks, that shouldn't be too high of a concern anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
JK_Dave said:
You know, I'd be skeptical of advice from someone trying to sell me something too, but I have heard several stories from guys on here where they've actually been sold down when they didn't need as much axle as they originally wanted by Dynatrac sales reps. I'd have to imagine, they're telling you to go with the 60/60 because others in your same situation are running that combo with no issues.

If it were my money, I might actually go up to the XD60 rear just to get more ring gear size and pinion strength. As for your wheels, you can probably recoup some of the cost by selling them. If your main goal is to avoid breaks, that shouldn't be too high of a concern anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
Click to expand...

That was my first thought when I read this thread as well. Dynatrac is very straight over the phone. If they suggesting a 60/60, I would take their advice. They tried to downsell me on a couple items when I did mine, they are good, honest people.
 
Most 1/2 ton trucks are equipped with d44s. I had a titan for 12 years on 35s with a d44 rear which held up its entire life with only 2 axle seals replacements. It was not a rock bouncer. It never saw Moab or Rubicon. However, it was my DD vehicle and used quite a bit for hunting and hauling. I hauled flats boats and airboats through muddy/swampy trails in Florida. Hunting locations entailed old beat down and over grown logging roads in the sticks of PA. It held up.

Is a PR60/60 stronger and a better solution? Absolutely.

IMO, if you’re leaning toward buying new axles definitely save and get FF 60s or a 60/80 combo. I wouldn’t waste your time or money on the 44/60.

While dynatrac is popular here for good reasons, don’t forget they aren’t the only well built American made axle.
 
Bigjimbo said:
Most 1/2 ton trucks are equipped with d44s. I had a titan for 12 years on 35s with a d44 rear which held up its entire life with only 2 axle seals replacements. It was not a rock bouncer. It never saw Moab or Rubicon. However, it was my DD vehicle and used quite a bit for hunting and hauling. I hauled flats boats and airboats through muddy/swampy trails in Florida. Hunting locations entailed old beat down and over grown logging roads in the sticks of PA. It held up.

Is a PR60/60 stronger and a better solution? Absolutely.

IMO, if you’re leaning toward buying new axles definitely save and get FF 60s or a 60/80 combo. I wouldn’t waste your time or money on the 44/60.

While dynatrac is popular here for good reasons, don’t forget they aren’t the only well built American made axle.
Click to expand...

What other brands do you recommend? I've heard that UD60's are good but if something happens to them you are on your own.
 
Dlanor82 said:
What other brands do you recommend? I've heard that UD60's are good but if something happens to them you are on your own.
Click to expand...

:cheesy: And in spite of knowing that, you'd still consider them :crazyeyes:

Do yourself a favor and do a price comparison between a set of Dynatrac axles and Dana. I think you'll find that Dynatrac is STILL a better buy AND you have more options AND you will have a company that stands behind what they sell you.
 
Dlanor82 said:
Hi guys,

I just got a V8 from Motech (L86 GenV with 8 speed transmission) in my 2012 JKUR and I am really getting concerned about axles/driveshafts upgrade.

I am currently running an AEV JK350 package (4.5" lift, AEV front/rear bumpers, 37" tires). I am also using the stock Rubicon driveshafts and stock Rubicon Dana 44's with 4.88 Gears. This being said, I don't foresee myself upgrading to 40's for long time, mainly because I would have to change the front/rear bumpers, tire carrier, and possibly the suspension, which would cost a fortune.

AEV sell V8 JKURs just like mine all day long and keep the stock Rubicon driveshafts and Dana 44's albeit with 4.56 gears. They claim that these jeeps are meant for over-landing and are extremely reliable as is. They also however offer the serious performance axle set from Dynatrac as an option (PR44/60).

I happen to know that the balljoints and housing on the front Rubicon Dana 44 are weak and will need replacing at some point in time. I also know that the brakes do need to be upgraded when you have a 6,500 LBs jeep. And I also know that the factory driveshafts will eventually need to be upgraded as well. I am not so sure about how well the Rubicon axleshafts will hold with the 460 lb.ft of torque of the V8.

This being said, when I add up all of the expenses involved in keeping the stock Rubicon 44's and strengthening them, I find myself being very close in cost to purchasing the serious performance axle set from Dynatrac and reselling my axles.

But every time I call Dynatrac, the person I speak to steers me towards the PR60/60 set instead of the 44/60.
This makes me question the strength of the 44/60 compared to my stock Rubicon setup. Ideally, I would like to get the serious performance package (PR44/60) and retain the factory 5x5 wheel pattern. That would save me a ton of money versus buying new wheels and the difference in price between the PR44/60 and the PR60/60.

Now I totally understand that a full float 60 is going to be a lot stronger and safer than a semi-float 60. but you are looking at spending, at a minimum, 1.5x what you would spend on the PR44/60.

In terms of areas that fail, how much is the PR44/60 stronger than the factory Rubicon 44? Can you spend your day doing burnouts, running moderate to hard trails, and use the Jeep as a daily driver without worrying about axle failure with the PR44/60 and 37's? Could you eventually increase the tire size to 40's and wheel carefully with it as well ?
Click to expand...

First off, thanks for calling us and considering Dynatrac for your next upgrades!

We prefer to sell axle sets that the customer will never have to worry about. We’re not sure what all was covered in your conversation with our sales techs, but something in that conversation must have driven them to suggest that the Hard Core 60/60 combo would be the worry-free choice. It could have been the idea of eventually going to 40-inch tires, which we do NOT recommend with any 44-based axle, even our ProRock 44 which is the strongest option available. 40s are just too big and heavy for the stock spindles, ball joint size (even with our HD Ball Joints) and ring and pinion. Yes, you can baby it and make it live for awhile - maybe even quite awhile - but that’s not what you have a V8 Jeep with Dynatrac axles for, right?

If you can stick with 37s, the Serious Performance package is great. And you can opt to get the ProGrip brakes which will make a huge improvement in driving the vehicle every day. If you are pretty sure you will go to 40s in the future, then you’ll want 8-lug wheels a d our Hard Core 60/60 axles set, if not our Elite axle set.
 
Dynatrac said:
First off, thanks for calling us and considering Dynatrac for your next upgrades!

We prefer to sell axle sets that the customer will never have to worry about. We’re not sure what all was covered in your conversation with our sales techs, but something in that conversation must have driven them to suggest that the Hard Core 60/60 combo would be the worry-free choice. It could have been the idea of eventually going to 40-inch tires, which we do NOT recommend with any 44-based axle, even our ProRock 44 which is the strongest option available. 40s are just too big and heavy for the stock spindles, ball joint size (even with our HD Ball Joints) and ring and pinion. Yes, you can baby it and make it live for awhile - maybe even quite awhile - but that’s not what you have a V8 Jeep with Dynatrac axles for, right?

If you can stick with 37s, the Serious Performance package is great. And you can opt to get the ProGrip brakes which will make a huge improvement in driving the vehicle every day. If you are pretty sure you will go to 40s in the future, then you’ll want 8-lug wheels a d our Hard Core 60/60 axles set, if not our Elite axle set.
Click to expand...

This sounds awesome, being a PR44 owner, if I ever decide to go for an LS-swap in the future and 37's, would a FF 60 (PR or XD, whichever provides the best clearance) and the PR be a good combination or is th PR44 not up to the task of such a setup?
 
jorgelrod said:
This sounds awesome, being a PR44 owner, if I ever decide to go for an LS-swap in the future and 37's, would a FF 60 (PR or XD, whichever provides the best clearance) and the PR be a good combination or is th PR44 not up to the task of such a setup?
Click to expand...

Depends on you really, but if you want to wheel that LS and 37’s with peace of mind it would probably be best to swap the front out to a 60 as well.


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
I can say from experience that after spending a couple grand in Moab (2 years in a row) replacing axle shafts go with PR60s. My Motech LS3 (37s 4.88 gears) now has the hardcore 60/60 package on it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
Last edited:
Having seen RedRocker run the reinforced stock axles for a few years and have to take it easy with his LS I’d definitely recommend 60s as well. I remember when he broke a u joint / axle shaft which took out the knuckle also in Moab. All parts that don’t change with a PR44. His new setup should last.

If you’ve gone through the effort to put the V8 in, which is a commitment in itself, I think you’ll be happier being able to use it. Definitely think long term or it will end up costing you a lot more. I went from stock to PR44/PR60 SF to UD60s to now the XD60/PR80 that should be coming any time now. I was “never going bigger then 37s” then went to 40s. Then now swapping in the V8 and wanted to make sure never to have an issue. As long as Dynatrac doesn’t come out with a PR100 I think I will be safe for the future now lol


Sent from my iPad using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom