Give me the Skinny

[jnabird333]

I am just a month or two from finally ordering my lift and I’m looking for some feedback from this great WAYALIFE knowledge ball.

I have a 13’ JKUR. I am going to run 35s. (Never any intention of 37s) I have PSC narrow tube fenders too. I plan on doing the drive-shafts at the same time I lift. I have read and read, and read some more on several forums and have in narrowed down to 2 ½ lift options when it pertains to brand. I’m still up in the air on a 2.5” or 3.5” lift. While I know I can clear the 35s with the 2.5” and there is a lot to be said for a LCG build; I have had issues with beak-over and gotten high-centered on several of the trails I frequent that pushes me toward the idea of the 3.5”. (I wish there was alternate lines to avoid this but there aren’t. The club I’m a part of is full of 2-doors and the trails are catered more for them.) I prefer the look of the 3.5” too. I plan to do a drag-link flip if I do the 3.5”.

My first request is for your thoughts on a 2.5” or 3.5”. Nothing brand specific, just pros VS cons. (I imagine there are some I haven’t thought of and I want to give due diligence in as many considerations up front.) I understand the actual lift will likely be higher than the advertised amount.

The second is for the Brand /type lift. I have listed the 2 ½ lifts I’m considering below. Feel free to pick my reasons apart.

1 – The current winning lift is the MetalCloak GameChanger Lite. Why? I like the bushing technology in the control arms and the zinc chromate plating (Even though I will likely paint it black). I live in the rust belt zinc is a huge plus in the war on rust. I have only read positive reviews from those running the lift.
2 – Rock Krawler X-Factor. Why? Honestly mostly because it is sold from a shop I have come to respect. While the technology seems dated, there is a lot to be said for tried-and-true. Why not in the lead? No Zinc, and some joint failures in my club (I suspect some of this may be from poor maintenance but it still happened.
1/2 – EVO Enforcer. I’m having a hard tie justifying this one but it’s hard to ignore the praise on this forum. It has the same joint style as RK. I also like the idea of 8-arms, but I’m not sure if I’m over thinking what is needed. It is my understanding the Enforcer only comes with FLCAs


So there it is… GO! and Thanks!

 

[Diver_matt]

What's dated about RK? I have their older joints but the Gen 3s seem to be well respected.

As for height, when you've been high centered, would one extra in really have prevented that? If so, go for it. If not, might as well do 2.5".

 

[jnabird333]

What's dated about RK? I have their older joints but the Gen 3s seem to be well respected.

As for height, when you've been high centered, would one extra in really have prevented that? If so, go for it. If not, might as well do 2.5".

Dated in that it uses a Heim joint on one end and a standard OE style bushing on the other for recentering VS a hybrid on both ends. The advantage is more distributed flex.... As well as it's sealed.

To be honest I don't know if the 1" would've made a difference as I currently only have 32s and a leveling kit.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using WAYALIFE mobile app

 

[wayoflife]

I have a 13’ JKUR. I am going to run 35s. (Never any intention of 37s) I have PSC narrow tube fenders too. I plan on doing the drive-shafts at the same time I lift. I have read and read, and read some more on several forums and have in narrowed down to 2 ½ lift options when it pertains to brand. I’m still up in the air on a 2.5” or 3.5” lift. While I know I can clear the 35s with the 2.5” and there is a lot to be said for a LCG build; I have had issues with beak-over and gotten high-centered on several of the trails I frequent that pushes me toward the idea of the 3.5”. (I wish there was alternate lines to avoid this but there aren’t. The club I’m a part of is full of 2-doors and the trails are catered more for them.) I prefer the look of the 3.5” too. I plan to do a drag-link flip if I do the 3.5”.

My first request is for your thoughts on a 2.5” or 3.5”. Nothing brand specific, just pros VS cons. (I imagine there are some I haven’t thought of and I want to give due diligence in as many considerations up front.)

Even with an inch more of lift, your break over angles still won't be that great if you're only going to run 35" tires. If you really want to get to a point where your 4-door is playing well with the 2-door crowd, you'll need 37's. The larger diameter size of a 37 will do more for your break over angles than anything.

I understand the actual lift will likely be higher than the advertised amount.

Not exactly - only some kits will give you more lift than is advertised.

1 – The current winning lift is the MetalCloak GameChanger Lite. Why? I like the bushing technology in the control arms and the zinc chromate plating (Even though I will likely paint it black). I live in the rust belt zinc is a huge plus in the war on rust. I have only read positive reviews from those running the lift.

Positive reviews from who? People who were sold on good marketing and chose to spend their hard earned money on them or industry professionals who's job is to win races or test products and give them an honest review?

2 – Rock Krawler X-Factor. Why? Honestly mostly because it is sold from a shop I have come to respect. While the technology seems dated, there is a lot to be said for tried-and-true. Why not in the lead? No Zinc, and some joint failures in my club (I suspect some of this may be from poor maintenance but it still happened.
1/2 – EVO Enforcer. I’m having a hard tie justifying this one but it’s hard to ignore the praise on this forum. It has the same joint style as RK. I also like the idea of 8-arms, but I’m not sure if I’m over thinking what is needed. It is my understanding the Enforcer only comes with FLCAs

Ummm, let's be clear on one thing here, RK joints are NOT zinc plated Currie Johnny Joints. The later is what EVO uses on their control arms and there is a reason why they are the industry standard and what professionals choose to use on their race rigs.

I won't sit here and try to persuade you to buy one thing or another. I run what I run because I can afford to buy the best and the best is what I want on my rig. When it comes to your rig, I would say to just get whatever will help you to sleep better at night. In the end, it most likely not even matter.

 

[wayoflife]

Dated in that it uses a Heim joint on one end and a standard OE style bushing on the other for recentering VS a hybrid on both ends. The advantage is more distributed flex.... As well as it's sealed.

Not exactly heims and definitely NOT standard OE bushings. Companies like Full Traction uses FK rod ends and they are more of a heim than anything out there and they are way awesome. As far as the frame side bushings go, RK uses polyurethane as opposed to bonded rubber. This offers more rotation and less bind but, comes at the cost of needing grease on a regular basis to keep them from squeaking.

Also, to be clear, EVO arms uses beefy Johnny Joints on BOTH ends of their control arms.

To be honest I don't know if the 1" would've made a difference as I currently only have 32s and a leveling kit.

As mentioned, it won't.

 

[jnabird333]

Even with an inch more of lift, your break over angles still won't be that great if you're only going to run 35" tires. If you really want to get to a point where your 4-door is playing well with the 2-door crowd, you'll need 37's. The larger diameter size of a 37 will do more for your break over angles than anything.



Not exactly - only some kits will give you more lift than is advertised.



Positive reviews from who? People who were sold by good marketing and chose to spend their hard earned money on them or industry professionals who's job is to win races or test products and give them an honest review?



Ummm, let's be clear on one thing here, RK joints are NOT zinc plated Currie Johnny Joints. The later is what EVO uses on their control arms and there is a reason why they are the industry standard and what professionals choose to use on their race rigs.

I won't sit here and try to persuade you to buy one thing or another. I run what I run because I can afford to buy the best and the best is what I want on my rig. When it comes to your rig, I would say to just get whatever will help you to sleep better at night. In the end, it most likely not even matter.

The reviews have been from other forum users. I don't put a lot of stock in magazine or reviews on their site. You have a valid point though in that it's sometimes though to weed through biased opinions.

Another good point on what is used in racing.

I'm not looking to be sold or persuaded but I do value your experience

Sent from my Nexus 7 using WAYALIFE mobile app

 

[JKWrang]

Positive reviews from who? People who were sold on good marketing and chose to spend their hard earned money on them or industry professionals who's job is to win races or test products and give them an honest review

Are you saying MetalCloak does not make a good/superior product? And I'm not asking menacingly, I'm asking because I'm having trouble finding ANY reviews on the 2.5" dual rate lift.

The shop round here loves metal cloak but until I talked to them I'd never even heard of them. The kits look nice and all but like you said.. marketing geniuses spent a lot trying to get your $$$.

Sent via secret squirrel underground network.

 

[jnabird333]

Are you saying MetalCloak does not make a good/superior product? And I'm not asking menacingly, I'm asking because I'm having trouble finding ANY reviews on the 2.5" dual rate lift.

The shop round here loves metal cloak but until I talked to them I'd never even heard of them. The kits look nice and all but like you said.. marketing geniuses spent a lot trying to get your $$$.

Sent via secret squirrel underground network.

For what it's worth... The 2 1/2" 2 door coils are pretty new. The 4 door variant is the 2 door 3 1/2" coils. This could be a factor in low volumes of reviews... Or they suck and no one wants to admit they waisted their money???


Sent from my Nexus 7 using WAYALIFE mobile app

 

[Canvas JK]

I am in the process of upgrading my lift as well. One question I ask myself is what type of driving and I going to be doing and how much wheeling will be involved and the difficutly. For me living in Florida there is not a lot of opportunity to go rock crawling like there is in West. We mainly have sand and a few hills to climb with some technical rock areas. For me the on road driving is key as this is my daily driver. I do not want a stiff ride on the road but want to be able to clear obsticles off road as well. I too am planning on running no bigger than 35's until I break my front Dana 30 and upgrade to a PR 44 or 60.
My recommendation is to see if you can either drive or ride in a Jeep which has various types of lifts in them to see if that is what you really want. Advice on lifts is going to purely subjective and as it has been pointed out on various other threads. For me I want to invest my money in a company who has not only tested their product but has proven their product on actual trails and even competed in races. If the company is willing to put their product on a race vehicle and put it through the paces then I know that is the product for me. Another deciding factor is how many people are actually running the product and what is the feedback.
My next investment is going to be after extensive field research and then I will feel comfortable spending a large amount of money on said product. The worst thing I can do, which I did already, was to go in un-informed and spent money on something I do not like. I also watch a lot of video's on YouTube to see what it is I am looking for. When I do finally pull the trigger on a new lift it will be a well thought out decission just as you are doing now.

R/
Will

 

[wayoflife]

The reviews have been from other forum users. I don't put a lot of stock in magazine or reviews on their site. You have a valid point though in that it's sometimes though to weed through biased opinions.

Well, you know what they say about opinions... everyone has one especially those who have zero experience running anything else. What I can tell you is that new technology is great and I'm not even going to suggest that what Metal Cloak has isn't good - it's just so brand spankin new and there's just no way to know for sure how well it will do in the long run.

Another good point on what is used in racing.

Well, the point is only that there really are few places or conditions where components are more heavily abused. To this day, I have yet to see a single race rig running Metal Cloak joints. Certainly, nobody would run their arms being that they are smaller/thinner than a lot of over the counter arms.

I'm not looking to be sold or persuaded but I do value your experience

Well, that's about the only thing I can offer you and you can take it for what it's worth :yup:

Are you saying MetalCloak does not make a good/superior product? And I'm not asking menacingly, I'm asking because I'm having trouble finding ANY reviews on the 2.5" dual rate lift.

Not at all. Back when they used to be Rev111, they were known to make decent fenders and body armor. Metal Cloak, has only recently been making suspension products and to a degree, I couldn't say that one way or another if they're any good as they simply haven't been around long enough for anyone to know. What I can tell you is that there are beefier control arms out there and there are tested and proven joints like FK rod ends and Currie Johnny Joints and their so good that a lot of companies just use them instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. IF these new high tech Metal Cloak joints turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread, I have little doubt that companies like EVO will stop buying Currie joints and buy them instead. FWIW, you don't even have to buy EVO, you could always just get Currie arms as they are pretty much the same thing.

The shop round here loves metal cloak but until I talked to them I'd never even heard of them. The kits look nice and all but like you said.. marketing geniuses spent a lot trying to get your $$$.

I have been doing this a long time... a VERY LONG TIME and you gotta know that shops will always push what they either have in stock or can make the most profit on. Whenever a new company comes out, one of the first things they do is aggressively solicit shops with sweetheart deals and really, who could blame them. You can only get your name out there if more people run your stuff. Does that mean they make a superior product? Time will tell.