Evo Double Throwdown Rear Steer?

[BigPrince]

Been researching suspension upgrades and the Evo Double Throwdown front and rear with high clearance control arms has been an option I've been looking into. I read where a couple folks were talking about the geometry being off and getting rear steer out of the Evo HC long arms versus doing a double triangulated 4link.

My use case is mostly rock crawling, trail riding, random around town trips, and the 1-2x yearly trip west to do some high speed stuff. I'm mainly concerned with the rear steer in slow technical crawling.

Any thoughts / experience(looking for 1st hand, not "it's good enough for Mel")?

Thanks!

 

[ttfhell]

Been researching suspension upgrades and the Evo Double Throwdown front and rear with high clearance control arms has been an option I've been looking into. I read where a couple folks were talking about the geometry being off and getting rear steer out of the Evo HC long arms versus doing a double triangulated 4link.

My use case is mostly rock crawling, trail riding, random around town trips, and the 1-2x yearly trip west to do some high speed stuff. I'm mainly concerned with the rear steer in slow technical crawling.

Any thoughts / experience(looking for 1st hand, not "it's good enough for Mel")?

Thanks!

It's good enough for me. Lol. Never noticed any difference between my old short arms or long arms I've had for a year as far as rear steer. What folks?

 

[wayoflife]

Well, for sure a triangulated 4-link is going to be badass and not have the same kind of problems that a traditional 4-link with a track bar will have so it's far from being close to a fair comparison. For one, you can only run a triangulated 4-link setup IF you remove your factory gas tank and replace it with something else. I personally don't know too many people willing to do that. That being said, how tall do the guys you've been talking to have their Jeeps set at? It's never been a secret that the EVO high clearance bracket are made for a much lower stance. On our Jeeps, we're only running about 3.5" of lift and they work perfect for that. But, if you were to run 5"-6" of lift or more, yeah, of course the geometry would be off and yeah, that could cause some rear steer at a full flex just like you would see with short arms. At that lift height, you'd be better served to run the standard EVO Double D brackets JUST LIKE MEL WOULD RECOMMEND. In the end, the whole purpose in running standard 4-link long arms is to help restore their geometry back to as close as stock as possible and running high clearance brackets with a stupid tall lift won't help to do that.

 

[jeeper52]

Well, for sure a triangulated 4-link is going to be badass and not have the same kind of problems that a traditional 4-link with a track bar will have so it's far from being close to a fair comparison. For one, you can only run a triangulated 4-link setup IF you remove your factory gas tank and replace it with something else. I personally don't know too many people willing to do that. That being said, how tall do the guys you've been talking to have their Jeeps set at? It's never been a secret that the EVO high clearance bracket are made for a much lower stance. On our Jeeps, we're only running about 3.5" of lift and they work perfect for that. But, if you were to run 5"-6" of lift or more, yeah, of course the geometry would be off and yeah, that could cause some rear steer at a full flex just like you would see with short arms. At that lift height, you'd be better served to run the standard EVO Double D brackets JUST LIKE MEL WOULD RECOMMEND. In the end, the whole purpose in running standard 4-link long arms is to help restore their geometry back to as close as stock as possible and running high clearance brackets with a stupid tall lift won't help to do that.

Im curious as to how you are sitting at 3.5" of lift? I would like to lower mine to that height as well. Did you change out your springs for a softer rate?

 

[wayoflife]

Im curious as to how you are sitting at 3.5" of lift? I would like to lower mine to that height as well. Did you change out your springs for a softer rate?

I have one of the original setups on Moby. The coils were a softer rate back then and if anything, I've had to add a bit of preload to get it to 3.5" of lift. Rubicat sits a bit taller but is still just under 4".

 

[JAGS]

Im curious as to how you are sitting at 3.5" of lift? I would like to lower mine to that height as well. Did you change out your springs for a softer rate?

I have one of the original setups on Moby. The coils were a softer rate back then and if anything, I've had to add a bit of preload to get it to 3.5" of lift. Rubicat sits a bit taller but is still just under 4".

It wasn't mentioned, but Eddie has posted many details in the past. Notably that sitting so low required quite a bit of trimming of the body for Moby. Not sure about Rubicat as that is a bit more recent.

If this is a fair statement, maybe Eddie can dig in the archives for some of the trim pics. If I'm wrong, well, Eddie will be sure to point that as well. Lol. [emoji16][emoji6]

 

[wayoflife]

It wasn't mentioned, but Eddie has posted many details in the past. Notably that sitting so low required quite a bit of trimming of the body for Moby. Not sure about Rubicat as that is a bit more recent.

If this is a fair statement, maybe Eddie can dig in the archives for some of the trim pics. If I'm wrong, well, Eddie will be sure to point that as well. Lol. [emoji16][emoji6]

Cindy and I prefer a low stance - as low as we can while still being functional. Moby is clearly lower than Rubicat but only because he is running softer coils. As mentioned, we have had to do a lot of trimming to make it work and even at that, Moby still rubs at extreme flex. We have Rubicat set with ZERO preload and she's still sitting a bit taller than Moby.

 

[jeeper52]

Cindy and I prefer a low stance - as low as we can while still being functional. Moby is clearly lower than Rubicat but only because he is running softer coils. As mentioned, we have had to do a lot of trimming to make it work and even at that, Moby still rubs at extreme flex. We have Rubicat set with ZERO preload and she's still sitting a bit taller than Moby.

How much up travel do you have? Did you notch the frame to?

 

[jeeper52]

Here's a pic of mine currently with zero preload in the front and probably about 2" of preload in the rear to level it out. Seems pretty high.

 

[JokerJKU]

Cindy and I prefer a low stance - as low as we can while still being functional. Moby is clearly lower than Rubicat but only because he is running softer coils. As mentioned, we have had to do a lot of trimming to make it work and even at that, Moby still rubs at extreme flex. We have Rubicat set with ZERO preload and she's still sitting a bit taller than Moby.

What spring rates are you running on the rear of each?

 

[dchew]

What spring rates are you running on the rear of each?

Note that "rear double throw down" discussed here is the lever system in the rear, and there is only one spring in the primary coilovers. New they come standard with 400 lb springs.

Dave

 

[JokerJKU]

Note that "rear double throw down" discussed here is the lever system in the rear, and there is only one spring in the primary coilovers. New they come standard with 400 lb springs.

Dave

Yep, I understand that. Eddie stated that he's running different springs on Moby and Rubicat, I was curious what the respective spring rates were and how much softer he had Moby set up versus Rubicat.

 

[BigPrince]

:bleh:


So, as long you run 3.5-4.5" geometry should be ok. I do think the other folks may have been running high so that makes sense. I may still hold out for a 4link and go a different route.

Thanks!

 

[jeeper52]

:bleh:




So, as long you run 3.5-4.5" geometry should be ok. I do think the other folks may have been running high so that makes sense. I may still hold out for a 4link and go a different route.

Thanks!

Yeah sorry for that. Does anyone make a 4 link kit other than genright? Or were you going to make your own?

 

[wayoflife]

How much up travel do you have? Did you notch the frame to?

I have not notched the frame but need to as my drag link will make contact with it on the passenger side.

What spring rates are you running on the rear of each?

Rubicat has what comes with the kit today, I believe that it is 400. Moby, I'm not sure as we had gone through a couple of different coils over the years. It's a bit hard for me to see what's etched on the bottom of them - I may have to give it a look the next time I work on them.

So, as long you run 3.5-4.5" geometry should be ok. I do think the other folks may have been running high so that makes sense. I may still hold out for a 4link and go a different route.

Thanks!

So, here's what I don't get. I mean, other than looking like a real man, I just don't understand where the benefit is of going stupid tall. Sure, it was all the rage back in the 80's but this is the 21st century and I thought people have learned a thing or two over the years. Of course, I don't know what kind of wheeling you do to need anything more than EVO long arms with high clearance brackets but of course, I'm just a mall crawler so what would I know.

 

[JokerJKU]

Rubicat has what comes with the kit today, I believe that it is 400. Moby, I'm not sure as we had gone through a couple of different coils over the years. It's a bit hard for me to see what's etched on the bottom of them - I may have to give it a look the next time I work on them.

Thank you!

 

[BigPrince]

I'm just a mall crawler so what would I know.

Me too

I personally don't want to go higher than needed and am looking to run 40" or 41.5" tires. I just want to do this right the last time.

 

[wayoflife]

Me too

I personally don't want to go higher than needed and am looking to run 40" or 41.5" tires. I just want to do this right the last time.

If you really want to do this right, stick with 40's. Odd size tires are just so lame as you can't really bum a spare off a friend and are near impossible to find in a pinch. Of course, if you never wheel in places where there's a chance of losing 2 tires, I suppose it makes no difference.

 

[BigPrince]

If you really want to do this right, stick with 40's. Odd size tires are just so lame as you can't really bum a spare off a friend and are near impossible to find in a pinch. Of course, if you never wheel in places where there's a chance of losing 2 tires, I suppose it makes no difference.

Good point.. A lot of the guys I wheel with run Pitbull Rocker radial 41.5s though.