DIY Re Gear

desertrunner

desertrunner

Hooked
so i had a buddy who did his own re gear in his XJ, it took him 3 days and he swore at the end of it he would never do it again that the money he saved wasnt worth it haha. I was there to help him for 1 of the 3 days and it looked like just a miserable game of guess and check.

My question is with all those people out here with the same axles and gears is there a "Standard" set up per say? like hey 3 pinion shims 2 left side shims and 4 right side shims and your good to go? Obviously still checking it all for the right backlash and tread pattern but maybe only having to make 1 or 2 adjustments instead of like 15 that we did with my buddies XJ. Or is every gear set and pumpkin unique and everyone's is different??

Also my next question is about the carrier i know i would need a new carrier to go from 3.21s to 4.88 (plan for now) but does the locker take the place of the carrier if i were to add an ARB in there while doing a re gear? Or if i just went with a new open carrier for now then added a ARB later would i then have to go through the whole shim process all over again?

I would have access to a Lift stall, bearing press, etc at my base auto hobby shop so i would have the tools to get the job done and im not shy to tear shit apart and turn some wrenches. I thought i read somewhere of someone doing this in his driveway in like 6 hours but after my last experience with seeing a re gear done, unless there is a "standard" to start with and get it really close right off the bat i have a feeling its going to take quite some time....
 
desertrunner said:
so i had a buddy who did his own re gear in his XJ, it took him 3 days and he swore at the end of it he would never do it again that the money he saved wasnt worth it haha. I was there to help him for 1 of the 3 days and it looked like just a miserable game of guess and check.

My question is with all those people out here with the same axles and gears is there a "Standard" set up per say? like hey 3 pinion shims 2 left side shims and 4 right side shims and your good to go? Obviously still checking it all for the right backlash and tread pattern but maybe only having to make 1 or 2 adjustments instead of like 15 that we did with my buddies XJ. Or is every gear set and pumpkin unique and everyone's is different??

Also my next question is about the carrier i know i would need a new carrier to go from 3.21s to 4.88 (plan for now) but does the locker take the place of the carrier if i were to add an ARB in there while doing a re gear? Or if i just went with a new open carrier for now then added a ARB later would i then have to go through the whole shim process all over again?

I would have access to a Lift stall, bearing press, etc at my base auto hobby shop so i would have the tools to get the job done and im not shy to tear shit apart and turn some wrenches. I thought i read somewhere of someone doing this in his driveway in like 6 hours but after my last experience with seeing a re gear done, unless there is a "standard" to start with and get it really close right off the bat i have a feeling its going to take quite some time....
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Locker is a carrier, so yes that replaces the 3:21 carrier.
Shims are specific per set up. The gears are machined in a specific tolerance with a pinion.
This is why you couldn't use my 5:13 pinion, with your 5:13 ring gear.
 
JKDream said:
Locker is a carrier, so yes that replaces the 3:21 carrier.
Shims are specific per set up. The gears are machined in a specific tolerance with a pinion.
This is why you couldn't use my 5:13 pinion, with your 5:13 ring gear.
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darn i was really hoping there was a magic formula for an ARB with 4.88s and D44 haha. would have made it so much easier. :grayno:

makes sense though that the R and P would be machined together to specific tolerances which are all going to be unique.

It would be so painful to pay someone over a grand to do my gears when i feel like i should give it a try myself, but its a bit of a big risk if i F it up haha not to say someone at a shop wont F it up either but less likely haha
 
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desertrunner said:
darn i was really hoping there was a magic formula for an ARB with 4.88s and D44 haha. would have made it so much easier. :grayno:

makes sense though that the R and P would be machined together to specific tolerances which are all going to be unique.

It would be so painful to pay someone over a grand to do my gears when i feel like i should give it a try myself, but its a bit of a big risk if i F it up haha not to say someone at a shop wont F it up either but less likely haha
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Less likely if they have done many times, and if they do fuck it up then it comes out of their pocket not yours when they have to fix it

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1) I have found in my limited experience that GENERALLY if you measure the shims as you take them out, and match the new shims to that, you will be damn close right from the start.

2) a locker is a carrier, but a carrier is not a locker, make sense?

3) 2 days, 1 axle per day easy if you have the tools, master install kits, have a decent idea of what you are doing, and don't run into problems or fuck something up.



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If you are close to Off Road Evolution that's where I'd go. Sounds like too much work unless you know what you are doing. Plus they did have a special. Not sure if they still do or not

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DWiggles said:
1) I have found in my limited experience that GENERALLY if you measure the shims as you take them out, and match the new shims to that, you will be damn close right from the start.

2) a locker is a carrier, but a carrier is not a locker, make sense?

3) 2 days, 1 axle per day easy if you have the tools, master install kits, have a decent idea of what you are doing, and don't run into problems or fuck something up.



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Click to expand...

My experiences as well. You will need a couple special tools and do yourself a favor and look at a couple how tos from a couple sources. My friend and I started by doing one set, and we have done a couple sets now with no failures. It takes time and A LOT of patients. Good luck
 
deadguy said:
My experiences as well. You will need a couple special tools and do yourself a favor and look at a couple how tos from a couple sources. My friend and I started by doing one set, and we have done a couple sets now with no failures. It takes time and A LOT of patients. Good luck
Click to expand...

Yeah makes sense, if i remember right from when i helped my buddy for 1 of the 3 days he did his was, every single time to check backlash and tread pattern and it wasnt right it would take us like 30 mins to pry the damn carrier out then pound the pinion out, then get all the bearings off. Then after adding more shims it would then again take another 30 mins or more to get it all back in there only to find out the tread pattern still isnt right and then started the 1 hour all over again making it THE most frustrating thing i have ever done haha.

I would have the equipment and tools to do it all but it would be pretty much just me with not a ton of gear set up knowledge. i just dont wanna end up pulling them out getting started and just setting them up like shit because im tired of the guess and check game
 
desertrunner said:
Yeah makes sense, if i remember right from when i helped my buddy for 1 of the 3 days he did his was, every single time to check backlash and tread pattern and it wasnt right it would take us like 30 mins to pry the damn carrier out then pound the pinion out, then get all the bearings off. Then after adding more shims it would then again take another 30 mins or more to get it all back in there only to find out the tread pattern still isnt right and then started the 1 hour all over again making it THE most frustrating thing i have ever done haha.

I would have the equipment and tools to do it all but it would be pretty much just me with not a ton of gear set up knowledge. i just dont wanna end up pulling them out getting started and just setting them up like shit because im tired of the guess and check game
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You can also make or buy a 'dummy' pinion bearing that you use only for set up. It slides on the pinion gear rather than pressing it on. That way during the numerous times you have to pull out the pinion for setting depth, it comes off and on really easy. Then when you have the correct depth set, you 'press' the correct bearing on and not the dummy bearing. It saves a lot of time. I think they're like 30-40 bucks, but you could make one by buying a spare bearing and using a sanding dremel to grind away the inner bearing surface and create more clearance to slide onto the pinion.
 
desertrunner said:
Yeah makes sense, if i remember right from when i helped my buddy for 1 of the 3 days he did his was, every single time to check backlash and tread pattern and it wasnt right it would take us like 30 mins to pry the damn carrier out then pound the pinion out, then get all the bearings off. Then after adding more shims it would then again take another 30 mins or more to get it all back in there only to find out the tread pattern still isnt right and then started the 1 hour all over again making it THE most frustrating thing i have ever done haha.

I would have the equipment and tools to do it all but it would be pretty much just me with not a ton of gear set up knowledge. i just dont wanna end up pulling them out getting started and just setting them up like shit because im tired of the guess and check game
Click to expand...


:crazyeyes::eek::shock::grayno: OH MY GOD NO!!!!!!!!! Trust me when I say FUCK THAT!!
Take a little off the ID of the old pinion bearings with a rotory, so they just slip on the new pinion. Use them along with the original crush sleeve as you mock up pinion depth. Only press the new bearings, change the races, and crush the new crush sleeve to spec AFTER you have double checked that you are ready to move on to setting back lash... :doh: :thankyou: :cheesy: :clap2:

EDIT: WJCO posted first
 
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There is math involved and a micrometer, if you can operate one, read it and do math, there isn't a reason you cant do gears. Provided you have all the tools. If you pull the entire axle out from the jeep/vehicle it makes life easy to work it on a bench, jack stands and in a comfortable position.
 
WJCO said:
You can also make or buy a 'dummy' pinion bearing that you use only for set up. It slides on the pinion gear rather than pressing it on. That way during the numerous times you have to pull out the pinion for setting depth, it comes off and on really easy. Then when you have the correct depth set, you 'press' the correct bearing on and not the dummy bearing. It saves a lot of time. I think they're like 30-40 bucks, but you could make one by buying a spare bearing and using a sanding dremel to grind away the inner bearing surface and create more clearance to slide onto the pinion.
Click to expand...

DWiggles said:
:crazyeyes::eek::shock::grayno: OH MY GOD NO!!!!!!!!! Trust me when I say FUCK THAT!!
Take a little off the ID of the old pinion bearings with a rotory, so they just slip on the new pinion. Use them along with the original crush sleeve as you mock up pinion depth. Only press the new bearings, change the races, and crush the new crush sleeve to spec AFTER you have double checked that you are ready to move on to setting back lash... :doh: :thankyou: :cheesy: :clap2:

EDIT: WJCO posted first
Click to expand...

well shit that would have saved a hell of a lot of time.

so with that dummy pinion bearing you still have to torque it down to get the right backlash right?

pinion depth to set backlash and left and right carrier shims to set tread depth???

yeah and i dont remember how my buddy was doing his math but i just remember we would get the backlash right but then the tread depth would be off then changing the carrier shims would fuck up the backlash..... and so on haha
 
desertrunner said:
well shit that would have saved a hell of a lot of time.

so with that dummy pinion bearing you still have to torque it down to get the right backlash right?

pinion depth to set backlash and left and right carrier shims to set tread depth???

yeah and i dont remember how my buddy was doing his math but i just remember we would get the backlash right but then the tread depth would be off then changing the carrier shims would fuck up the backlash..... and so on haha
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The only things you are "setting" are pinion depth, preload (pinion bearings), and backlash (carrier/locker shimmed left or right) *in that order too
 
This is already sounding easier than we made it last time I swear it was the biggest pain in the ass pressing the bearings over and over and changing shims on both pinion and carrier at the same time hahaha. I may have to bring this tread back in a month or so to do a re gear.

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Everything is the same with a dummy bearing other than you don't have to use a press and spreader every time to set it up. You still torque the pinion nut every time. Then once you got it perfect, you take it all back apart and PRESS on the REAL bearing for the final assembly. It saves a shitload of time.
 
It's not all that hard to do. Ive done it with help a couple of times. Set the pinion depth and next is just shimming for backlash. The pinion should have a +1 or-1 number etc on it and you either add or take away for that. You can find what the stock pinion depth is. A little math as stated above and that part is good. Get some yellow mesh paint and get a good pattern. Backlash is probably around. 003 to. 007 or so.

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so i started searching around for some Rubi Take off axles and i found some good options with low miles. one front with the stock 4.10s and one complete set with 5.13 i feel like if i could get the front with the 4.10s for a good price that i could just do my own re gear on my rear 44. Im thinking i would need a new carrier to go from 3.21s up to the 4.10s though???? I think the 5.13s are a bit too much for my plans and buying the set would leave me with no money for tires. 5.13s and stock tires :cheesy:

I may give a few shops a call and see what they would charge to do a rear set of gears and weld on some C gussets. I have heard desert rat is a place to look into out in albuquerque but if anyone in the area has any shop recommendations for C gusset welding and gears that would be great???
 
desertrunner said:
so i started searching around for some Rubi Take off axles and i found some good options with low miles. one front with the stock 4.10s and one complete set with 5.13 i feel like if i could get the front with the 4.10s for a good price that i could just do my own re gear on my rear 44. Im thinking i would need a new carrier to go from 3.21s up to the 4.10s though???? I think the 5.13s are a bit too much for my plans and buying the set would leave me with no money for tires. 5.13s and stock tires :cheesy:

I may give a few shops a call and see what they would charge to do a rear set of gears and weld on some C gussets. I have heard desert rat is a place to look into out in albuquerque but if anyone in the area has any shop recommendations for C gusset welding and gears that would be great???
Click to expand...

Yes you would need a new carrier going from 3.21 to 4.10 or whatever ratio you want to run.

What size tires you plan on running?


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